If it is chaotic and late, we all are at fault

Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:26:32 +0100
plea-for-sanitity

I think we all in Debian agree that the current discussion and the votes are a cruel mess. But if anyone wants to blame anyone else for this, please consider some facts:

The outcome of the vote depends on what is to be voted on. If the vote is "Eat shit or die" a majority of people might choose the shit. That's why our constitution allows everyone to amend the vote, to offer more options, so that people can vote for what they actually want. This might get messy, especially if the process is chaotic. It can only work if people take the time and consideration to discuss the suggestions long enough to get to sane values. But if you haste it will get messy.

That there is so much haste currently is also our all fault. Of course if more people had worked on the firmware issues, we would not have this problem. But this is not the fault of one side. The other side could have worked on that too.

Some "But I have nothing against firmware in the kernel." is as little an excuse for not working on it as "I do not need kernels for hardware without free firmwares".

Because the outcomes of the last votes for sarge and etch made clear that just having the stuff in the kernel is no solution. Everyone that did not propose a GR to allow non-free firmware more than half a year ago and did not work on easing things for users needing non-free firmware has either to admit that it is also his fault by omission as much as those not wanting the firmware in there and not having done more to get rid of it. Or you have to admit you willfully did nothing to now take the release hostage for your goals.

That said, I also want to speak against the "lenny without firmware will be totally unusable". I didn't look at the details. But when I in the last half year had some servers that needed some firmware, that was not even in the kernel and on the installation media, I was extremely surprised how easy it was to put it there and how anything went correctly without thinking much, the installer just copied the needed files directly on the installed system. The initrd generator must have included that somehow (for it was a firmware for the sata card, and it actually boots). And I think it might not even be needed on the installation media, but might also be inserted by some other means. (But putting it in the initrd of the netboot installer was just so easy, that I tried nothing else).

Some post-scriptum: I personally would have deemed it more clean to have Peter Palfrader's proposal not made to amendment of the other vote. But if it had been handled otherwise, I definitely would have suggested an amendment to it (and perhaps some others, too). So do not think it would have made things much faster or easier to grasp.

Another post-scriptum: It's the job of our secretary to protect and interpret the constitution. The only thing looking at the current discussions is why political partisans in some western countries not yet got to the idea of recalling judges whose job it is to protect the constitution. Perhaps because in that setting it would sound just too absurd...