13
\$\begingroup\$

We are playing with the optional chase rules from the DMG that say you have to start making increasingly difficult Constitution checks when running for extended time:

A chase participant can freely use the Dash action a number of times equal to 3 + its Constitution modifier.
Each additional Dash action it takes during the chase requires the creature to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution check at the end of its turn or gain 1 level of exhaustion.

Our party wizard has the spell expeditious retreat, that gives them the ability to use their bonus action to dash each turn for 10 minutes.

The players feel that the spell is massively nerfed by this rule, especially in chase escape situations that given its name, it should be good at. A wizard with solid Constitution can maybe dash 4-6 times, or 2-3 rounds, before they run out of freely usable dashes and need to make increasingly hard checks, and once they fail the second check their speed halves and all is for naught. The 10 minute duration is largely useless in that regard.

I think that is just how it works from the rules interactions. But I can understand their protests. (Never mind that they have weaponized the spell by also casting floating disk and using that as a platform for a second character that can dish out ranged attacks at high mobility, I think that's a fine use of creative spell deployment).

So my question is if somebody else has experienced this interaction between these rules in their game, and if so, how did they resolve it and how did that work? Just stick to it and allow the players to switch the spell if they decide it's not worth it? Allow the expeditious wizard to chase without Constitution checks?

Improve this question
\$\endgroup\$
2
  • \$\begingroup\$ Somewhat related, in that it talks about the dangers of using bonus dashes during a chase, Can a creature kill itself by dashing during a chase? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 3 at 8:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ The Floating Disk ranged weapons platform is a staple of D&D combat for at least three decades. Nothing new there, good job. \$\endgroup\$ Commented 2 days ago

3 Answers 3

Reset to default
8
\$\begingroup\$

Let the clever players win

  1. This wizard player has taken and prepared mobility spells and expended spell slots in order to do this.
  2. This wizard is not relying on his personal fortitude in order to dash, it's magic!
  3. Just find other ways to still make the chase interesting. Note that Expeditious Retreat is a concentration spell, and there are ways that the wizard might lose concentration.

How I'd rule:

  1. The bonus action dash from the spell doesn't count towards the 3 + CON mod limit for the chase.
  2. The expeditious retreat dash does not require a CON check.

My justification:

  1. Compare to Longstrider, both 1st level spells, assuming a base speed of 30 and dashing as much as possible, Longstrider can go 80' and Expeditious Retreat can go 90'. This is reasonable as Longstrider lasts an hour without concentration vs Expeditious Retreat being 10 min and with concentration.
  2. Compare to a Druid who wildshapes into an elk with 50' movement. This actually happened in a game. Some spells and abilities are just good in a chase, let them be good.
  3. If you rule that spells that should be good in a chase, just aren't, then your players who took them will say "that wasn't fun, I guess I'll never prepare that spell again", and it's not a good story. If instead you rule that the spell was great, now your group has an amazing memory of how they were clever and had an amazing chase.

Note: This question is NOT a rules question, but a house rules question. So this is a house rules answer and not a RAW answer.

Improve this answer
\$\endgroup\$
1
  • \$\begingroup\$ FYI, there's an even faster beast that most druids will have seen and can thus wildshape into: CR 1/4 Riding Horse (60') or CR 1/2 Warhorse (60'). The warhorse has a similar attack to the Elk. But if you can only do CR1/4 at most, and want to sacrifice some speed for a better attack that can knock enemies prone so party members who didn't ride on the horse/elk form can catch up, Elk is a good choice. (The fastest 3rd-party beast is the CR1 Moorbounder from Wildemount. Higher-CR speed-60 beasts are CR2: Giant Elk, Allosaurus, and CR3: Spotted Lion (Bigby: Glory of the Giants) \$\endgroup\$ Commented yesterday
7
\$\begingroup\$

I would rule this like this (as IMO RAW didn't foreseen this interaction, and thus strict reading of the rules is nonsensical): Chase rules limit usage of dash as an action, while the spell adds the ability to dash as a bonus action. So a wizard with this spell active could move 3 times his speed in his turn: move action, dash action and dash free action. And only the second one is limited by constitution. The other thing that is going for the wizard is that specific beats the general, so the spell should last for 10 minutes without the penalty. And other rule in this DM's opinion doesn't make sense. Why would a spell usage kill spellcaster, but only if using during in only situation the spell is actually good for.

Which means the wizard (or anyone under the effect of Expeditious Retreat) will "win" the chase, either escape or catch up to the guy you are chasing. Or use his actions for attacking/spellcasting.

Improve this answer
\$\endgroup\$
6
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ You are taking the dash action, just as a bonus action. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 3 at 9:56
  • 5
    \$\begingroup\$ @SeriousBri The job of a DM is to interpret the rules so that they make sense. Any rulling that turn the niche spell into a suicide one in the only instance it is actually usable is mildly put dumb. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 3 at 10:07
  • 5
    \$\begingroup\$ I agree, and honestly might even use your rule, but it isn't the actual rule as the answer makes it out to be. Maybe update your answer to have it as a suggested ruling based on your experience. Although I would add that this would make rogues really good in a chase for no investment, which is a downside of this rule for me. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 3 at 10:20
  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ I also think this is a clever way to interpret it even if it is not strictly within the rules. I am not looking for a RAW solution, because I think RAW, it is not working (although if you were right, that would be a nice resolution). This looks pretty reasonable, the main issue for an answer here is that if it does not make a RAW claim, it doesn't sound like it is based on experience. But I like the idea and will try this. Thanks! \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 3 at 10:26
  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ This ruling lets lvl2+ rogues also dash indefinitely without needing Con checks, since they can also dash as a bonus action. Limiting it to only magic-powered dashing like Mathaddict's answer proposes makes more sense. \$\endgroup\$ Commented yesterday
1
\$\begingroup\$

Interpret "action" as "Action"

That is, if you can Dash as a bonus action or a reaction, it doesn't count.

Improve this answer
\$\endgroup\$
2
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ This ruling would let anyone with 2 levels of Rogue (for Cunning Action) run twice as fast outside of combat (over long enough distances that main-action dash can't be sustained). That seems nonsensical. Being good at outrunning pursuers is a useful attribute for a criminal, but twice as fast making it nearly an auto-win? \$\endgroup\$ Commented yesterday
  • \$\begingroup\$ @PeterCordes I was aware of that when I posted the answer. I don’t have a problem with it. \$\endgroup\$ Commented yesterday

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Start asking to get answers

Find the answer to your question by asking.

Ask question

Explore related questions

See similar questions with these tags.