I ended up writing a long-assed comment riffing off of ideas in
treewishes's post about this ep, so go read hers so this will make sense, though I've quoted a few key points inline.
Tree said: Victor has been slashed so dramatically that (a) he can't be returned to RL once his contract is up (assuming they ever really release people) and (2) could mean he needs a face transplant. Because we are all just cells in a bag, ya know. But in this case, it could mean another actor in the role.
They'd better not lose the actor playing Victor; he's pretty darn amazing. I see no reason not to keep him, with slashes; but it may also mean he ends up being forced into an "inside the house" role; he's unlikely to be sent on Miss Lonelyhearts style gigs again. He could also be used in security stuff - scars on a guy could signal stereotypical hardassed toughness outside the house, which could suit some imprints.
In a comment to Tree,
lucitania mentioned what I take is an emerging fan theory that when Dominic said "whiskey" to Saunders he didn't mean "give me a shot of whiskey instead of a shot of sedatives" but "Whiskey," aka her Doll callsign.
I've been assuming for a while that Saunders is a Doll; makes sense that's what Dominic meant. I hope that's not the last we see of him. One question is whether Saunders is capable of realizing it. I think she's probably been in the Saunders imprint for some time, perhaps well before Alpha - though it's interesting that Alpha tests her memory by asking when she met him. Why would Whiskey have been created before Alpha? Working backwards through the alphabet? Clearly Alpha is trying to figure out how much Saunders knows about her own past. From his reaction I doubt that what she remembers is actually when they first met. It may not even have been when he was first wiped, either.
Tree said: My biggest suspicion is that Echo set Alpha up from the beginning -- that Echo somehow programmed him to get out and set stuff up, and then to get back in and reprogram her. Perhaps something Caroline set up before she even went into the Dollhouse. Because that was just very, very slick, wasn't it?
Why would Caroline program Alpha to rescue someone who isn't Caroline? Or has she, perhaps, created a program of a "better" Caroline, one who doesn't have the traumatic memories etc. that caused her to accept becoming a Doll in the first place?
This also brings up something they've so far glossed but has to be significant: When Adelle first meets Caroline, it's right after Caroline & her boyfriend break into the Rossum building on campus in fairly innocent, naive, animal-rights activist pursuits (not that activism is naive, but that they were). But in the first episode, we see Adelle telling Caroline that they've been going back and forth for two years. So something was up between the defeated Caroline Adelle meets in the hospital, the Caroline who's just seen her ambitious plan get her boyfriend killed, and the defiant Caroline in the opening scenes of the series that seem to depict her signing herself over into Dollhood. So what happened in the intervening two years?
I of course also love how Ballard finds the excuse of November's remote kill switch convenient for not rescuing her - how does he know Caroline doesn't have one too? It's pretty clear that Alpha intentionally created the degree of fixation Ballard has for Caroline specifically, in what he chose to reveal, sending pictures etc. When Ballard learns how he was played, will he realize the extent to which he's been played to believe Caroline is special?
Tree said: Also in retrospect, the break-in seemed a bit too easy, but there was this moment in the ventilation shaft where Alpha followed Paul even though - up until that moment, he should have just hung back - that I had a tiny twinge that something was wrong.
I initially assumed Tudyk was Alpha and that he was similarly being manipulated remotely - ie that he was crazy scientist guy by day, triggered unknowingly into Alpha at night kind of deal. So I figured he didn't know he was Alpha, and then when he revealed himself, that he'd been switched on by something on the computer as he was messing with it. That's maybe still possible, but I prefer the "Alpha is just a good actor" version of events. I LOVE how Alpha played not only the Dollhouse, but Ballard as well. It was a bit of a tell when he followed Ballard - the "carrots" threat shouldn't have been enough when jailtime for pot would be infinitely preferable to The Attic. I'm thinking Alpha got his layout knowledge by torturing the scientist, not by downloading him, though who knows.
Tree said: Victor has been slashed so dramatically that (a) he can't be returned to RL once his contract is up (assuming they ever really release people) and (2) could mean he needs a face transplant. Because we are all just cells in a bag, ya know. But in this case, it could mean another actor in the role.
They'd better not lose the actor playing Victor; he's pretty darn amazing. I see no reason not to keep him, with slashes; but it may also mean he ends up being forced into an "inside the house" role; he's unlikely to be sent on Miss Lonelyhearts style gigs again. He could also be used in security stuff - scars on a guy could signal stereotypical hardassed toughness outside the house, which could suit some imprints.
In a comment to Tree,
I've been assuming for a while that Saunders is a Doll; makes sense that's what Dominic meant. I hope that's not the last we see of him. One question is whether Saunders is capable of realizing it. I think she's probably been in the Saunders imprint for some time, perhaps well before Alpha - though it's interesting that Alpha tests her memory by asking when she met him. Why would Whiskey have been created before Alpha? Working backwards through the alphabet? Clearly Alpha is trying to figure out how much Saunders knows about her own past. From his reaction I doubt that what she remembers is actually when they first met. It may not even have been when he was first wiped, either.
Tree said: My biggest suspicion is that Echo set Alpha up from the beginning -- that Echo somehow programmed him to get out and set stuff up, and then to get back in and reprogram her. Perhaps something Caroline set up before she even went into the Dollhouse. Because that was just very, very slick, wasn't it?
Why would Caroline program Alpha to rescue someone who isn't Caroline? Or has she, perhaps, created a program of a "better" Caroline, one who doesn't have the traumatic memories etc. that caused her to accept becoming a Doll in the first place?
This also brings up something they've so far glossed but has to be significant: When Adelle first meets Caroline, it's right after Caroline & her boyfriend break into the Rossum building on campus in fairly innocent, naive, animal-rights activist pursuits (not that activism is naive, but that they were). But in the first episode, we see Adelle telling Caroline that they've been going back and forth for two years. So something was up between the defeated Caroline Adelle meets in the hospital, the Caroline who's just seen her ambitious plan get her boyfriend killed, and the defiant Caroline in the opening scenes of the series that seem to depict her signing herself over into Dollhood. So what happened in the intervening two years?
I of course also love how Ballard finds the excuse of November's remote kill switch convenient for not rescuing her - how does he know Caroline doesn't have one too? It's pretty clear that Alpha intentionally created the degree of fixation Ballard has for Caroline specifically, in what he chose to reveal, sending pictures etc. When Ballard learns how he was played, will he realize the extent to which he's been played to believe Caroline is special?
Tree said: Also in retrospect, the break-in seemed a bit too easy, but there was this moment in the ventilation shaft where Alpha followed Paul even though - up until that moment, he should have just hung back - that I had a tiny twinge that something was wrong.
I initially assumed Tudyk was Alpha and that he was similarly being manipulated remotely - ie that he was crazy scientist guy by day, triggered unknowingly into Alpha at night kind of deal. So I figured he didn't know he was Alpha, and then when he revealed himself, that he'd been switched on by something on the computer as he was messing with it. That's maybe still possible, but I prefer the "Alpha is just a good actor" version of events. I LOVE how Alpha played not only the Dollhouse, but Ballard as well. It was a bit of a tell when he followed Ballard - the "carrots" threat shouldn't have been enough when jailtime for pot would be infinitely preferable to The Attic. I'm thinking Alpha got his layout knowledge by torturing the scientist, not by downloading him, though who knows.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-03 10:52 am (UTC)The Phred thing is pretty fascinating -- so lets assume she was Whisky (and was slashed up) when Alpha attacked the DH, and in the same attack, Dr Saunders is killed. Adelle puts Saunders in the Whisky body, and of course that's why she never leaves the house now; she's still a doll. Now the bigger question is what Alpha was trying to suss out with his questions - likely he already figured all of this out, and was trying to determine just how self-aware Whisky is now.
Note to self: Print up a list of all of the call sign alphabet words and post next to the computer. Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India, Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Sierra, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, X-ray, Yankee, Zulu. Listen closely for any word on the list :)
Caroline -- I like the idea of an "improved" Caroline, with kung fu skills and who knows what else added. And yes -- it's that two-year gap where Caroline is on the run where I think the real plotting occurred.
Ballard -- clearly someone (Alpha) was feeding him information, and making him lurrvve Caroline. And when he sees Victor and says "my whole life is the Dollhouse" was perhaps a little precient -- will they be making him into a doll to replace Victor... ?
Alpha -- Can I just say Tudyk was so PERFECT here? So convincing as the crazy scientist, and maybe it was something in the computer that switched him to Alpha - why was he sweating the details, in any case?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-03 11:14 am (UTC)Geez, Mike is a call sign?! Juliet? Seriously those names could have already been tossed around and I wouldn't know. I mean, ADELLE could be Juliet for all we know. Anyone could be less-than-real. BALLARD could *already* be a doll...
... which could explain how Adelle was so willing to put him in the chair, which was disturbing. In the past, the one thing that made me question Adelle's inherently being a decent human being was when she ordered Sierra's handler to kill Mellie, and then she was quickly proven not to be that callous when it turned out she was just setting the handler up. Would Adelle put Ballard in the chair if it *actually* meant killing him? Would she send him to the Attic?
I feel like Adelle has been remarkably tolerant of Ballard, and that perhaps the Dollhouse in general has found him useful. Would it be in the Dollhouse's interest to have a Doll in the FBI, to be the straw man investigating the dollhouse, but so crazy-seeming no-one would take him seriously? It'd be the perfect cover. And of course they'd need him to be a true believer, like when they sent Echo into the cult, so he would have to be unaware of his own Dollness. If Ballard's a Doll, that would also explain his single-minded nature, lack of any other human attachments, being an apparently straight or at least bi guy living in West Hollywood but oblivious to human-level stuff like a hot neighbor hitting on him, etc.
If Ballard's a Doll, does Alpha know? Does Caroline?
And also, are there forces even larger at work - Are Alpha and Caroline being played?
I've been wondering whether the Dollhouse is in fact set up by the government or by multiple governments or other secret agencies. The NSA could have sent Dominic for many different reasons. I'm also not sure Dominic was the mole who was sending Ballard secret messages, though the lack of new messages since Dominic was Atticed makes a case for that.
Honestly, I've been thinking it was Adelle. And I almost wonder if Adelle tolerated Dominic's security breaches to the NSA and used the sting on him as cover for her own breaches, because the assumption would be that things were shipshape now that Dominic's been caught. It could be why Adelle made sure to be away during the security breach investigation, and why it was necessary to get rid of Dominic and make Boyd - a better ally for an eventual coup - the new head of security. Basically, it feels like the LA Dollhouse is primed to revolt against the establishment, the Rossum/Dollhouse conglomerate in whatever form, and that perhaps Alpha and Echo, including their escapes, are a part of that.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-03 11:19 am (UTC)And now - thinking about the timeline -- Dominic was "three years at her side" so when exactly was the Alpha attack? If it was within those three years, they kept Adelle and Dominic in charge afterward? Seems like a fire-able offense, for someone, no?
Geez, I need to rewatch all of these now, don't I?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-03 02:10 pm (UTC)But I'm commenting to say one thing: if everybody's a doll, it'll be good twists narratively, but it'll much cheapen what the series says.
I mean, I LOVE that Ballard's struggling with conditioning(s), social and not, in his life (being a man in our sociatey, being an FBI agent, having to feel like a prince rescuing princesses, being conditioned / played by Alpha releasingf info to him, etc) and with consent, and it's kind of the same with Adelle. If they're both dolls, or one of them is (but especially Paul), then the series makes its point much more literally and cheaply, imo.
So I4m holding out that things won't be that 'easy'. *g*
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-03 02:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-04 03:01 am (UTC)More I think about it, for Adelle to have the "old friend" from last week's ep makes it unlikely she's a Doll, unless she's been in her current persona for quite some time.... which theoretically she could be.
In any case, yes, I'd rather neither Ballard nor Adelle be Dolls.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-04 07:52 am (UTC)I need sleep, clearly. :D
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-05 10:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-06 07:09 pm (UTC)The mole seems to have given Ballard some real clues to go past the obvious (not that Ballard has taken any of them yet, but this current kerfuffle could be a wakeup call :)
We've had the finger pointed at Ivy (which makes her a possible, in my mind), and Dominic (yes, as you say -- he was NSA, but was he the mole? Probably not.)
I think we have to rule out the handlers (other than Boyd) and the art teachers, massage therapists, and other staff because the little we've seen of them? It wouldn't be Joss worthy to have them be more at this point. And Boyd - also no, he's more brawn than brains, but could possibly be working with the brains.
I think we have to rule out Dolls, because even though they could be in on it, when their personality is wiped, they can't really be programming/planting advanced chips in the chair. So that takes out Dr Saunders .... but wait a mo. What if Whiskey is programmed to be the mole?
Hmm, now that does point to Adelle, doesn't it? Or Topher - I know the scuttle is that he's just an evil genius, but he's still a minor possibility.
So -- I suspect we're still going to get some AHA! moments in the next ep!