pauamma: Cartooney crab wearing hot pink and acid green facemask holding drink with straw (Default)
[personal profile] pauamma posting in [community profile] disability
For screenreader users: does the text
aɪ lɔv mi s̪ʌm ˈaɪ.pʰiː.eɪ‖
sound like recognizable English for I love me some IPA.?

For everyone: is the title= annotation in the quoted text above giving the intended English text obviously present and accessible to you?

For people knowledgeable in accessible HTML5 (and inline CSS if needed or useful): given the intent of the above (English in IPA with actual English text as an annotation), is there a more accessible (or better, generally) way to do it than <span lang="en-fonipa" title="I love me some IPA.">aɪ lɔv mi s̪ʌm ˈaɪ.pʰiː.eɪ‖</span>?

Thanks in advance to all.

ETA: apologies for the lack of tags, but I'm not allowed to set them when posting or later, maybe because I'm not (or not yet) a member.

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-04 07:53 pm (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
re title element, I'm on mobile, so no 😿

ETA: but the hover works on my laptop!
Edited Date: 2022-06-04 08:29 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-04 08:12 pm (UTC)
lightgetsin: The Doodledog with frisbee dangling from her mouth, looking mischievious, saying innocence personified. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lightgetsin
First question, nope. On Jaws with Chrome, I get, transcribed as best I can "a l v me s a m pi e double vertical line" If I arrow over it I can tell there are characters that aren't translating. Milage may vary with different settings or screenreaders.

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-04 08:50 pm (UTC)
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)
From: [personal profile] recessional
A quick research of it implies that it's really hard to get screen-readers to parse IPA correctly. =\ Possibly not impossible, but I definitely got lost in the postings.

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-05 12:33 am (UTC)
lightgetsin: The Doodledog with frisbee dangling from her mouth, looking mischievious, saying innocence personified. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lightgetsin

This is not my shocked face

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-05 08:02 pm (UTC)
lightgetsin: The Doodledog with frisbee dangling from her mouth, looking mischievious, saying innocence personified. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lightgetsin
This is a good question. All the major screenreaders have "language detection" which is supposed to make sure that, e.g., a french phrase in an english text is rendered with a french accent instead of phonetically per english rules. And it definitely includes other alphabets in that detection. In reality, I've found it buggy and often turn that feature off. But at least for Jaws, logically you'd think the architecture to make it detect is there. I'm a little surprised no one has written a Jaws script for this, now that I'm thinking about it. Maybe no one has gotten quite interested enough yet.

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-05 04:06 am (UTC)
fayanora: qrcode (Default)
From: [personal profile] fayanora
When using eSpeak, it got as far as "I love me" and then devolved into saying each letter individually, though it thought "some" was "ess vee emm." On the browser using a read aloud extension, the thing was a mess consisting largely of it saying "question mark" over and over again.
Edited Date: 2022-06-05 04:10 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-05 04:09 am (UTC)
fayanora: qrcode (Default)
From: [personal profile] fayanora
BTW on my laptop, hovering over the text does show the hover text "I love me some IPA."

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-05 04:13 am (UTC)
fayanora: qrcode (Default)
From: [personal profile] fayanora
I didn't describe what eSpeak did very well. Here's a link to the WAV file of what it did: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rwbv0wwjyb6nnf/IPA.wav?dl=0

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-05 11:20 am (UTC)
vass: Small turtle with green leaf in its mouth (Default)
From: [personal profile] vass
For everyone: is the title= annotation in the quoted text above giving the intended English text obviously present and accessible to you?

Accessible yes, obviously present no.

On my reading page (Basic Boxes: Denim layout) it appears like normal text: in IPA, obviously, but no underlining. Underlining (or a dotted underline) would help.

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-09 04:39 am (UTC)
vass: Small turtle with green leaf in its mouth (Default)
From: [personal profile] vass
Yes, that works.

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-13 07:22 am (UTC)
vass: Small turtle with green leaf in its mouth (Default)
From: [personal profile] vass
You asked (for everyone, not only screenreader users) if the title text was "obviously present". My answer was that no, it wasn't obvious.

The underlining is to make it more obvious that there's something else there, in the same way that the W3 standard for a link includes underlining, and different colours for a link the viewer has or has not followed. Not that most web devs follow or are even aware of the W3 standards, but the logic is still sound. The underlining without colour suggests 'something like a link, but not a link,' which is more or less what title text is. Some sites use dotted underlines and even a little icon or a question mark. What matters is just that there's a clear cue.

Do you usually mouse over text in unfamiliar scripts, to see if there's title text there? If you do, how did you learn to do that? What clued you in?

(no subject)

Date: 2022-06-05 09:32 pm (UTC)
susanreads: barcode of my username (barcode)
From: [personal profile] susanreads
The title text is accessible to me (Windows 10 laptop, Firefox), but I didn't know it was there until you told me, like [personal profile] vass said.

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