implicated2: (Default)
implicated2 ([personal profile] implicated2) wrote2014-09-23 10:40 pm
NSFW

How to Respectfully Decline Kinky Content in Your Request Letter: A Yuletide (and Other Fest) Guide

I came to fandom relatively recently, but the two times I've been a part of Yuletide, it's been a pleasure. I love seeing what people request, scheming treats, figuring out how to answer prompts, reading the great bounty of stories, and being part of the overall sense of joy and merriment and delight.

There's only one thing that consistently bums me out about Yuletide: I'll look at someone's dear author letter and they've requested not to receive certain kinds of kinky content in one of these thoughtless ways. There is nothing wrong, of course, with requesting that your Yuletide fic not contain BDSM or other kinds of kink. But the way you express your request can have a big impact.

Here's the thing about me: I'm kinky. Kink (well, certain kinds of kink) is what gets me hot, and it's also a big part of how I build intimacy. It's an area of life where I get to be creative and get to learn and grow. I love the intimacy that comes with doing this kind of learning with someone, and also the intimacy-with-myself that comes from doing this learning at all. I treasure the people with whom I can share what I've learned, whether it's a partner and me having figured out a new thing we can do as part of our D/s dynamic, or having discovered I'm hot for something I had no idea I was into, or having come up with a perfect analogy to illustrate how this one kind of D/s feels.

Most places are not places I can share those parts of myself; in fact, in most places, there are consequences for doing so. Before realizing I needed to seek out specifically kinky people to date, I had partners scoff at the very activities I was just beginning to realize I wanted to do. When I make new acquaintances, I am constantly deciding how open to be about who I am and what matters to me. It's not that I want to shower strangers with detailed descriptions of my most intimate fantasies, but sometimes questions like "why did you move to [current place of residence]?" or "how did you meet [friend]?" or "what kind of writing do you do?" can't be answered truthfully without some reference to kink. So I can either talk around the truth or risk answering honestly, knowing the person could well respond with dehumanizing levels of disgust or prurient curiosity.

All of which is to say that one of the things I value about fandom is that it does largely feel like a safe space both to be out about being kinky and to connect with other people to whom kink is important. So it just really sucks to be wandering around fandom with my guard down and come upon a request that makes it sound like kink is a gross, icky thing whose very existence is both an imposition and a threat that must be warded off at all costs.

Here's the thing: if you don't want to receive kink, I don't want to write it for you. If you phrase your request not to receive kink thoughtlessly, I also won't want to write anything else for you, and I will come away from your letter feeling sad and alienated. I don't think most people who make the kind of thoughtless requests I’m talking about do it maliciously, though—at least, I hope not. So for anyone who's wondering how to respectfully decline to receive kinky content in a gift fic, I offer the following suggestions.

Think About What You Do Want

One of the most effective ways to get a story written to your taste is to tell your writer what you like. This may seem obvious, but it can be tricky. Many of us aren't taught how to talk or think or write about the kinds of erotic content we enjoy, apart from maybe naming a few sex acts. But you can give your writer a lot of information: What is important to you in a sex scene? Character development? Sensory descriptions? Explicit consent? Accurate physical descriptions? Laughter? What kind of tone(s) do you like in sex scenes? Tender? Breathless? Meditative? Sensual? Humorous? Joyful? Adversarial? Do you enjoy reading long, detailed depictions of sexual encounters? What kinds of sex acts would you like to read about? The more you can tell your writer about what you want to read, the more likely it is that they'll come up with something you like.

Understand That There Is No Normal

One of the common threads in thoughtless no-kink requests is writers asking for "normal" sex or erotic content that isn't "unusual" or "heavy" or "extreme." There are two problems here. First, calling one kind of sex "normal" implies that anything else is weird and deviant. (It also implies that not being interested in certain acts is weird and deviant, which sucks doubly for someone like me who both likes kinky stuff and doesn't like some normative stuff). If you prefer characters only have sex where they touch each other gently, say so. If you only want egalitarian power dynamics, say that. But you will make a lot of people feel crappy if you imply that those acts are "regular" and everything else is "freaky."

The second problem is that it's not clear what you mean. What might seem "unusual" or "heavy" or "extreme" to me might not to you, and vice versa. So someone who wants to write you a gift you'll like may well steer clear of all erotic content to be sure of staying within bounds. Again, stating what you would like will help you here. Are there some kinds of non-normative erotic content that you would enjoy? What might those be? I see the phrase "light bondage" a lot, but what is "light bondage" to you? Bondage done with only certain materials? Only on certain parts of the body? Only with a certain kind of emotional energy between partners? The more you can be clear about what you might like to receive—and the more you can avoid alienating potential writers—the happier all involved will be.

A Simple "No Thanks" Will Do

It is totally okay to have squicks, or triggers, or kinks that just don't do it for you, or other things that, for whatever reason, you'd prefer your assigned writer not write for you. It is also okay to express not wanting those things in your request letter. But being mindful of how you make that request makes a huge difference. A brusque "no D/s" (to use a personal example) particularly when being into D/s is already marginalized, is way harder to read than "D/s is not really my cup of tea." [Thanks to the conversation here, my thinking on the previous line has changed; please see the update below and many of the comments for a fuller discussion of how and why.] And a "no" phrased in a way that's explicitly meant to imply that there's something wrong with reading or writing or being into D/s just really, really sucks. This is fandom—if we can't celebrate, or at least respect, each other's strange and wonderful joys and attachments here, where the hell can we?

There's also no need to justify why you aren't into something, the same way there's no need to justify what you are into. I'm fine hearing that a kink I'm into isn't for you, but I don't want to hear that something that's core to how I do intimacy creeps you out or bothers you or makes you think of something unpleasant. A simple "no thanks" is all your writer needs. The point is to express that a given kink isn't a good fit for you, not that it is a gross thing no one should write about.

I can't believe it's Yuletide season again. I'm excited, and I hope these suggestions will help make Yuletide an even happier place. Do you have any other suggestions for writers who want to decline kinky content respectfully? Feel free to leave them in comments.

[Edited slightly for clarity 9/24/14. See comments for details.]



**Update, 9/30/14**

I want to thank everyone who has commented here. This has been an incredibly lively and constructive conversation, and I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to share their thoughts.

I wanted to share some of the ways my thinking has changed as a result of the conversation here. A lot of the response to the post has centered around the line A brusque "no D/s" (to use a personal example) particularly when being into D/s is already marginalized, is way harder to read than "D/s is not really my cup of tea." Having had a few days to think about that line and the responses to it, I've come to understand that two things were wrong: first, my wording wasn't clear, and second, my thinking wasn't clear. (And, potentially, third, my relative newness to fandom meant that some of the things that were obvious to most commenters here about fic exchanges were not obvious to me.)

What I wanted to ask people writing Yuletide letters to do was to say no to stigmatized things politely and kindly. What I think I ended up communicating was that the only good no was an equivocal no.

A couple things have become clear to me in this conversation that hadn't been before. The biggest one is that "No x" and "x is not my cup of tea" are not functionally equivalent. I had, perhaps naively, assumed that any writer who saw their recipient didn't like something would not write that thing for them. But I am hearing here that that is not the case, and perhaps more importantly, that a letter writer who wrote "x is not my cup of tea" rather than "no x" might feel less confident that their wish would be respected.

I want to thank the many commenters who have framed this as a boundary or a consent issue. I don't want people to come away from this post feeling that there is no okay way to say a firm no to unwanted content, and I apologize to those of you who have come away with that feeling.

Here is what I will say now: Personally, I don't like reading "No x" or a list that begins "No x, y, z." To my ear, that phrasing both sounds like a rude way to talk to someone who is considering giving you a gift and also resonates unpleasantly with real-world exclusion. But, that is a far from universal view. I am hearing from many people here that a "No x" or a list of "No"s reads as neutral to them, and that the long history of using DNW or "do not want" lists in fests makes a "no" in that context already an I-statement.

I think I'll always prefer to read something like one of the following (many of these from comments):
  • Please, no:
  • I absolutely don't want:
  • I will not be able to enjoy any fic that contains:
  • Please don't write me:
  • Squicks/triggers/dislikes:
It is my firm belief that a writer seeing any of these phrases should not write these things for you. But if for any reason, these phrases or something like them don't feel sufficient for expressing your boundaries, then please use whatever phrasing does.

Thank you again to everyone who has participated in this discussion.
naraht: Moonrise over Earth (Default)

[personal profile] naraht 2014-09-24 09:04 am (UTC)(link)
Very thought-provoking read. A few observations:

I'll look at someone's dear author letter and they've requested not to receive kinky content in one of these thoughtless ways. There is nothing wrong, of course, with requesting that your Yuletide fic not contain BDSM.

I know this is mostly just an introductory statement but I hope you'll forgive me for unpacking it a little bit. However badly-phrased a lot of those letters were, most of them weren't actually requesting not to receive kinky content, just specifying which kinks they weren't interested in receiving. And I think that the complications actually come with specifying: it's fairly easy to just say "no kink, please" (though it might be much more difficult to unpack that as a writer).

I'm also a bit hesitant about equating kink with BDSM because there are a lot of non-BDSM kinks out there.

What is important to you in a sex scene?

Maybe also worth thinking about the way that kink interacts with stuff outside the bedroom. Like if you say "no D/s," do you mean no formalized D/s scenes as part of the characters' sex lives? Or do you mean no implicit D/s dynamic between the characters in daily life? To use an example, a canon with servants, like Jeeves and Wooster or Lord Peter Wimsey and Bunter. Or a canon set in a public school where one boy is fagging for another. A writer might think that those canons were all about the D/s overtones whereas the requester might really not. Or vice versa.

If you prefer characters only have genital sex, say so.

As a writer I would honestly have no idea what this meant. Presumably not no foreplay? (I don't like the term but you know what I mean.) No one coming from nipple stimulation alone? No one coming from BDSM alone? Or no BDSM at all, even if it leads into genital sex? Or something else...? Maybe it has a commonly understood meaning in the kink community that I'm missing.

A brusque "no D/s" (to use a personal example) particularly when being into D/s is already marginalized, is way harder to read than "D/s is not really my cup of tea."

Hmmm. A lot of people use "do not want" lists in order to streamline their letters. Are you against including "do not wants" for kink in otherwise unadorned lists? (I always feel there's slightly incommensurate about lists that run, say, "no genderswap, wingfic, bondage, rape, slavery, child abuse.") Or is it just that you would like that sort of list to start with "things that are not my cup of tea" rather than "no"?

Once again, thanks for the food for thought.

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pauraque: bird flying (Default)

[personal profile] pauraque 2014-09-24 12:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the advice I would give is this: Imagine that your assigned writer is a friend of yours. Now imagine that the thing you're declining is something they love, but you happened not to realize it. Now imagine you said what you're planning to write in your letter to their face. Would their feelings be hurt? Would you be embarrassed and wish you'd said it differently? Well, there you go.

You'd think this would go without saying, because... well, if you feel like you have to say "no D/s", then doesn't that imply that you believe there is a chance your assigned writer may love D/s? Aren't you saying this for them, so shouldn't you phrase it in a way that is polite to them?

What might seem "unusual" or "heavy" or "extreme" to me might not to you, and vice versa.

And this goes double in a multi-fandom exchange. Individual fandoms may have their own standards of what's typically written and not written, but you don't know what fandom your writer comes from or what the norms are there. Something no one would write in a million years in your home fandom might be a routine trope in theirs. (Knotting in Teen Wolf? Incest in Supernatural? Crossgen in Harry Potter? I'm sure you can come up with more.)

Once I was reading prompts in an MPREG fest, and one of the requestors had asked for "nothing too weird". When it comes to weirdness, context is everything.


TL;DR: Be specific and be kind.
Edited 2014-09-24 13:05 (UTC)
liviapenn: miss piggy bends jail bars (remains sexy while doing so) (Default)

[personal profile] liviapenn 2014-09-26 03:28 am (UTC)(link)

I love this! If people only knew how many letters I (and others) read, looking for people to write treats for... and it's just appalling to read the really aggressive, rude policing of what's "normal" and what's "gross"-- "no xyz because it makes me barf!!" and it completely turns me off wanting to write a treat for that person. You really don't know your recipient, and why would you want to start off by insulting them? Plus, even if they aren't insulted, as you say above-- if someone describes what they want/don't want in really vague, undefined terms, ("normal" "vanilla" "weird" "extreme" "light") etc., that's pretty much going to send me into an infinite loop of "But what do you MEAN? Does it include THIS? Could it possibly mean THIS?"

I do think it would be helpful if you included some very clear "good" examples at the end, though, in case there are people who aren't quite sure how to put this advice into actual practice-- ie, instead of "no extreme kink", figure out exactly what you mean and say that: "no painplay," "romantic and fun emotional tone," "casual roleplay, not lifestyle D/s", or whatever... It's just better to be super clear. You're less likely to hurt your writer's feelings *and* you're more likely to get what you actually want.
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[personal profile] miramira 2014-09-27 06:55 pm (UTC)(link)
But being able to give specific examples like "painplay" or "lifestyle D/s" presumes a degree of familiarity that someone who isn't into kink may not have or feel compelled to research in order to write a letter. And even if somebody is willing to take the time but is afraid of getting it wrong or inadvertently offending (or including so many details that it starts to look like they're trying to dictate the scene for the writer), they may decide it's safer to err on the side of something vague like "vanilla" even if it means winding up with no sex in the fic at all.

I do appreciate that it's hard to find open and accepting spaces for kink. But I think the truly clueless requests mostly come from people who aren't familiar with basic exchange etiquette at all or aren't going to take the time to read a guide like this, and everyone else is doing the best they can. When the only thing you know you share with the person reading your letter is a fandom, it's just not possible to anticipate everything that might rub them the wrong way. And feeling that you have to find the perfect balance in spite of that or you're going to ruin someone's exchange is the sort of thing that sends me into an infinite loop.

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[personal profile] grey_bard 2014-09-27 05:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I swear I am not concern trolling here, this is an honest question. How do you walk the line between "when you have someone frantically begging not to receive a kink that is basically never written anyway, you wonder what they're really trying to defend against." and "Instead of "no extreme kink", figure out exactly what you mean and say that: "no painplay," "romantic and fun emotional tone," "casual roleplay, not lifestyle D/s", or whatever... It's just better to be super clear. You're less likely to hurt your writer's feelings *and* you're more likely to get what you actually want."?

If you make a polite laundry list of all the kinks that people write that you do not want, and all the types of sex that you are okay with, wouldn't that fall into the first category? How do you recommend navigating this?

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[personal profile] hiddencait 2014-09-27 06:47 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess this is an odd situation for me, because for a while I ended up in a comm where watersports and scat really DID become a huge trend, and it wasn't a fandom that I thought would have generated it. So I'm used to having to specifically state that I prefer no watersports or scat, because otherwise I would get fic with that.

Really, I have a hard time seeing where a Like/Dislike list should be taken as insulting. It's that individual's personal preferences. They're not out to insult - they're just out to get a fic that fits their preferences.

It's early so it's possible I'm not reading enough into this post. I just don't quite understand why someone would get offended over a Dear Author post. It's the requester's post. The whole point is to write something the other person would enjoy, right? So why get offended just because they don't like kinks?
krait: a sea snake (krait) swimming (Default)

[personal profile] krait 2014-09-28 03:32 am (UTC)(link)
If "liked" items are presented as "normal", and "not liked" items are described as "gross"... how would you feel when something you liked (or even lived) was put in the latter category by a stranger?

The problem isn't that people dislike things, it's that they unfortunately phrase their dislike to suggest that anybody who likes those things is Wrong. (See the examples that the post writer linked within the post!)

It's possible to tell someone what you would enjoy, or not enjoy, without suggesting they're a bad person if they do enjoy those things. Considering that you don't know your assigned author, you also don't know what they might like; so if your letter states or implies that something is disgusting or wrong, rather than just not your personal preference, then yes, there's a chance they'll be offended.

Handy personal example: I personally can't stand reading about pregnancy, for instance, but I'm aware that it's something plenty of other people enjoy, so I'm not going to call those people "freaky" or "out there" or "weirdos" for liking it. You can request something, or even dis-request something, without making a value judgment! And since a Dear Author letter is addressed to a total stranger, attaching a value judgment comes across as extra-rude, because you know that you don't know anything about this person! Would you write a letter to a new penpal that says, "Yesterday my cousin announced she's pregnant, it's so gross!" when it's possible your penpal is pregnant (or wants to be, or plans to be)? I hope not.

The other part of the issue is that it's not terribly helpful to the author - "here's what I don't like" (which is a nondescriptive list of 3-6 things) doesn't give the author a lot of help in coming up with ideas for what you would like! "No bondage, no oral sex, and no foot fetish" doesn't convey much of your taste. Do you want a story with lots of worldbuilding? Do you want hilarious banter? Do you want sappy fluff? Do you want mellow, don't-have-to-say-a-word-to-communicate friendship? There are eight bajillion plots out there that don't involve bondage, oral, or feet; but which ones will bore you to tears, or make you too tense to enjoy the story?

But yeah, the main point of the post is: be less judgmental about what you don't personally happen to like, please. Nothing makes somebody want to write for you less than a letter whose undertone is, "Oh, and none of that disgusting filth that YOU like!" but unfortunately in the past Yuletides some people have done exactly that.


Editing to add: I'm actually kind of curious about the comm you ended up in with a surprising proportion of "unusual" (as reckoned by Yuletide letter writers and AO3 statistics) kinks. For a while, there was a certain corner of my current fandom where that was going on, too (no scat, that I saw, but there sure was a lot of watersports and emetophilia fic springing out of the woodworks)! Maybe we overlap on a fandom? :D Probably not, but it's funny how these things seem to go in flurries!
Edited (Curiosity ;)) 2014-09-28 04:41 (UTC)

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makioka: Brad and Nate (Default)

[personal profile] makioka 2014-09-27 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm sorry but I really don't think a 'no D/s' is shaming. It means exactly what it says. No D/s. What you choose to project onto that is your business not the letter writers. For all you know 'no D/s' means 'no D/s because people don't write the dynamic I like for these characters'. Or it could mean 'no D/s because I said it's not my cup of tea one time and someone still wrote me it because they thought I wouldn't mind if it was mild D/s'.

In the end, unless someone says something negative about a kink i.e. 'no D/s because it's gross', then I think taking it as a neutral preference is completely fine. I write several kinks that often make it onto a flat no list or are taken as a given that nobody would write but I don't consider it shaming just that other people can have equally strong reactions to something but in the opposite direction. As long as they're not saying it's disgusting or judging other people for wanting/writing it, I don't see the problem.
Edited 2014-09-27 20:20 (UTC)
puppet_theatre: ice crystals (Default)

[personal profile] puppet_theatre 2014-09-28 03:39 am (UTC)(link)
Or they mean "no D/s because I don't care for the capitalization protocol, but D/S with a capital 'S' is peachy-keen!"

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[personal profile] debirlfan 2014-09-27 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Ok, I admit to being one of those who've used the "no heavy kinks" wording - not because I have anything against them (or against anyone who practices them) but simply because it didn't seem in character for the characters I was requesting.

So - what's the polite way of saying that I'm fine with someone getting tied up with materials on hand like a tie, or a set of handcuffs (something characters in my fandom would likely have anyhow for non-sexual purposes) but that anything involving dedicated bondage gear is out? And how do I say that for most of my requests, non-con is out as the characters aren't rapists and I'd rather they not be victims - but that something like drunken dub-con is fine? And further, one of my requests may be for a character who is a sadistic rapist in canon, and for him, anything goes?

I don't write particularly long "dear writer" letters in the first place, and having more letter dedicated to what I do/do not want re kink than to actual prompts seems sort of excessive. Help?
krait: a sea snake (krait) swimming (Default)

[personal profile] krait 2014-09-28 04:05 am (UTC)(link)
I think the polite way of saying "I don't want Kink X or Y because it doesn't seem in character for them" is pretty much exactly that.

"If you want things to get kinky, I love it when characters find sexy uses for everyday stuff, especially neckties or handcuffs! I find improvisation and so-turned-on-we-just-can't-wait type scenes sexier than stuff with commercially made equipment, so go wild with the creativity we know is lurking inside them."

For the non-con issue, since it's not applying to one character, you could go one of two ways I can see.

First, you could talk specifically about each character - this is helpful anyway, so don't be shy! It doesn't have to be an essay, but try to tell the author what you love about each character in canon (always has the perfect one-liner? quiet but ends up solving half their cases?) and/or in sexy fic (love their chemisty with A when they flirt? they're shameless about getting what they want and I think that'd carry over to the bedroom?). When you get to Mr (or Ms.) Canon Sadistic Rapist, then it's time to set up the exception: "With this guy, I'd be delighted to see his canonical worst traits come out! As long as A, B, or C aren't the victims, I'm down with just about anything he can do."

The second way would be to add it to the kink discussion elsewhere in the letter, or else elaborate on it after talking about the characters. "If non-con is involved, I'd love for Mr Canon Sadistic Rapist to be the featured character! I'm fascinated by his dark side and the depths we've already seen him reach in canon. My heart's too tender to handle A, B, or C playing his role or the victim's, though, so for them I'd prefer fic with a lighter tone. Anything consensual, or even somewhat dubious, would be delightful; I do have a weak spot for [drunken hookups that lead to more? sex pollen that affects both parties? etc.]"


I hope that helps! (And if others in the comment thread want to chime in, please do! I'm no expert or anything; every bit of input helps!)
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2014-09-27 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)
I tend to have a list of "please do not include these in my fic, I will not enjoy them" specifically because I tend to otherwise throw stuff wide open; for me it's mostly an issue of "if this shows up in my fic, I will be unable to give you an honest thank-you for it when I read it." Because of the nature of Yuletide - the culture that these are gifts, not just swaps, and thus the etiquette of gift-receiving that is promoted right up in the official stuff - that matters to me.
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[personal profile] crantz 2014-09-28 12:26 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure what you'd find acceptable, since your linked post seems to cover every single possible way of saying it as unacceptable.

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[personal profile] merle_p 2014-09-28 03:35 am (UTC)(link)
I would also like to add that asking for "no D/s" in a story really does not necessarily have anything to do with what people think about it IRL. Personally, I have practiced BDSM with several partners and enjoy doing it, but I generally don't particularly enjoy reading it in fic, for a number of reasons. I have definitely stated "no BDSM" in fic requests and certainly not intended that in a disrespectful manner.

I totally understand the wish for respect and politeness, and agree that any expression of disgust is unnecessary and rude, but those neutral "no xyy" lists don't seem offensive to me - as a writer receiving a prompt like that, I just figure people don't want to dwell too long on the things they are not interested in reading anyway.
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[personal profile] krait 2014-09-28 04:19 am (UTC)(link)
The main problem I see with a neutral "no ___" is that, for broad categories like D/S, it's both too open and too proscriptive. Different people -- and especially, I think, different people who have some in-real-life experience of it -- are going to draw the lines for 'what is D/s" very differently! Are you absolutely ruling out everything, or just the most sexual things, or just the most stereotypical things? Remember - the author doesn't know what your real life experiences are! For all the author knows, you might think that 50 Shades is "real BDSM"... or, conversely, that might be your author's definition!

Are you absolutely going to hate any fic with characters giving each other orders? rough sex of any description? use of, say, a necktie or shirt as a temporary hand restraint?

And I think canons probably vary a lot, too, because plenty of canons out there involve relationships where there are BDSM overtones, so are you also ruling out the kinds of interactions found in the canon?

The "no X" proscriptions may not be rude, per se, but they are tricky for recipients because, as with the "no heavy kink" or "no extreme stuff" requests, they ultimately come down to personal definitions and may be complicated by the canon itself. (And if the person tries to guess where you line for "no X" is and gets it wrong, they're going to feel that their definitions are being attacked.) Isn't it worth a couple of sentences to outline things a little more clearly? Tell them that you don't enjoy scenes where one character holds power over another -- or verbally holds power over another; even if they're pretending to hold power over another; but you don't mind spanking/biting/hickeys. Or tell them that you love the canonical tension that comes from X and Y being boss/subordinate (or equal partners) but prefer that they leave that strictly to the workplace (or continue that sense of equality into the bedroom).

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[personal profile] raktajinos 2014-09-28 03:45 am (UTC)(link)
I think all my DA letters have been pretty neutral in my wording of preferences, I tend to go for the straight up 'dislikes' header in my letters. But I can certainly change my language to something more open....maybe .... Hmm. I'm trying to think of what to write in it's place. I fear phrases like 'i prefer not to receive' open it up to a 'maybe' preference, and there are some thing I absolutely cannot read for trigger purposes.

I want to make my letter as non-oppressive as possible, so do you have a suggestion on how to be polite and supportive of people's rights to their own kinks, but also be firm in the language for not wanting it.

Maybe a "YKINMK but please do not include:" be okay?
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[personal profile] lovepeaceohana 2014-09-28 03:52 am (UTC)(link)
I'm really glad this is here. Thank you.
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[personal profile] metanewsmods 2014-09-28 04:37 am (UTC)(link)
Hi, may we link this at [community profile] metanews?
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[personal profile] prettysophist 2014-09-28 08:19 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you for posting this, I often have difficulty choosing the right words in Dear Author letters and sign-ups. And now I am looking for reassurance. The following is an excerpt from my rarewomen 2014 Dear Author letter:

"If you lean toward the heavier ratings, I would prefer that you stay away from chan, scatplay and watersports. Everything else (including - but not limited to - non-con, dub-con, BDSM, infidelity) is fair game. Graphic violence and graphic sexual situations are fine. (Castle-specific: Stay away from incest in Castle fandom, please. Fine in all other fandoms.)"

It isn't terribly specific, because as you said, I don't really expect to receive anything in that list from that kind of exchange and I don't want to scare my writer off, but at the same time I want to leave as many options clearly open as possible. Is this something that would offend you/you think would be likely to offend someone else? And if so, can you suggest a way to re-phrase it without making it so long that a potential writer would just skip to the end?
Edited 2014-09-28 08:22 (UTC)

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[personal profile] bethynyc 2014-09-28 04:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Like the poster above, I'm looking for a little reassurance. In my Dear Author letter last year, I wrote: I like (list of things, about three lines) and I do not like (list of things, a line and a half). The Do Not Likes were primarily of a sexual or kinky nature, although I did include things like abuse and mpreg.

Under the specific requests, I put more detail into the sort of thing I was hoping for.

Is a simple Like/Don't like okay, or does that not work? I'm really confused now!

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[personal profile] elizabeth_rice 2014-09-28 07:12 pm (UTC)(link)
There's also no need to justify why you aren't into something, the same way there's no need to justify what you are into. I'm fine hearing that a kink I'm into isn't for you, but I don't want to hear that something that's core to how I do intimacy creeps you out or bothers you or makes you think of something unpleasant. A simple "no thanks" is all your writer needs.

I agree with this so much! I like this post. You've not bogged down the reader with a bunch of rules, but you've given people three core things to think about. That's the best that you can do.

But I just remembered that this year some people just straight away talked about their specific requests where they focussed on what they like about the fandom, character and/or relationship they've requested and gave their mystery creator a bunch of ideas for character, relationship and/or plot development. Thus they avoided making lists of general likes and dislikes etc.

I really liked these letters; they were very useful. If people have trouble phrasing their letters, this is what they should do. Just talk about the specific requests.

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[personal profile] silverflight8 2014-09-28 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Look, I don't understand why saying simply "no D/s" is not all right. You said a simple no thanks is fine, why isn't "no D/s"? Will "no D/s, please" be okay? Does a letter writer have to also add a disclaimer saying that they don't mean to kinkshame, they just don't want to read the kink? Yuletide is a gift exchange, and letters are written so that writers can better tailor fic to their recipients. (Insert talk about optional details being optional, etc). In this context, saying "I don't want D/s" is almost an entirely neutral statement. All you can extract from it is that they, personally, do not wish to receive fic (in this exchange for these fandoms) that has D/s. As a writer, it doesn't matter why my recipient doesn't like xyz. They just don't.
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[personal profile] krait 2014-09-28 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the point being made is that, first, "No D/S" comes across as an order rather than a request, and second, that it isn't very helpful in conveying what you do or don't want. (It's a broad category, after all! Some people think D/S is the stuff in 50 Shades - abuse and 'lifetime contracts' and physical pain. Some people think D/S is office roleplay or fuzzy handcuffs or a sexy maid costume.)

"No D/S, please" or even "I don't enjoy reading D/S" would sound much better than a flat "No D/S". ...But consider instead "I like fics with clear consent" and "I love it when characters have sex like it's just the two of them against the world" (or whatever it is you like that you'd consider the opposite of D/S).

You definitely don't have to explain why you don't like it! Nobody's saying you do, or that you can't un-request things. But since your recipient is a complete unknown, it doesn't hurt to take two extra words to make sure they know you're not condemning all of D/S (or whatever kink) in all contexts everywhere, you just personally don't want to read it at this point.

As [personal profile] implicated2 pointed out, for kinky people that blanket "no" sounds less like a fic request and more like an attack, because it's brusque and doesn't fit with the context of a request letter. The letter is about what you like and dislike, not what you forbid and allow. (And as was also noted, this can crop up more obviously when you're making a list; seeing "No D/S, rape, gore, or death" sure does make it look like you see D/S as being as wrong or reprehensible as those other things, even if you didn't mean it that way.)

Does a letter writer have to also add a disclaimer saying that they don't mean to kinkshame, they just don't want to read the kink?

I think the point trying to be made is that, if you exercise a little extra care when writing, such a disclaimer won't be needed! If your letter says in the first place that Kink X is not your preference -- rather than wording that implies Kink X is wrong or offensive -- then shaming needn't ever come up.

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[personal profile] xenomantid 2014-09-30 02:46 pm (UTC)(link)
What if we don't want to read sexual content at all in our fanfic? Or what if we are perfectly happy to read a certain type of sexual practice in one fandom but not another? (A person who requests fanfic for both Watchmen and The Wizard of Oz may enjoy or tolerate reading whipping, caning, or brutally rough sex in the one fandom but not in the other.)

And I have to join the "'no D/s' isn't necessarily shaming" crowd. While "no D/s" may not be specific enough for the prospective writer to interpret, isn't it better for that writer to err on the side of unambiguous equality for the partners in a sex scene if the recipient writes "no D/s"? (I know that long-term D/s relationships require consent from both parties to be functional; I mean that someone who writes "no D/s" in her* letter probably means that at the very least, she* expects the power dynamics between the parties involved in the sex scene to be completely egalitarian in every way.) Frankly, I don't see why anyone is obligated to have the mentality that absolutely anything goes in a story she* requests simply because she* participates in fandom in some capacity.

*Replace with your preferred pronoun as necessary.

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