so about that tournament...
Hey everyone! I'll keep this short and sweet, especially since it's 8AM and I'd like to get some sleep lmao. But we've had a few solid discussions, recommendations, crit, and even anon response about the tournament setup. We realize the godmodey, all-inclusive part of the event is hard to escape and that a lot of people are feeling left out without anyone to really work into pairings, especially the newer kids.
(EDIT: 27th 1AM) So we'd like to bring a re-tool to the table, and discuss randomization! While we'd definitely be keeping the mindfuckery spirit of things and the setting entirely, our proposed idea would be that everyone ICly chooses the partner that they trust the most as per usual for the first round, or everyone can go in alone and get randomly shuffled, or wait in the initial room like we already had laid out. But after that first match, we'd randomize the rest (with a few requested exceptions). This way would be a lot easier to sort into brackets and organize, but we also realize that a lot of people have already plotted out their rounds and may enjoy the CR potential. TL;DR Round 1 stays ICly picked, Rounds 2/3/4 are OOCly randomized and finalized.
After more (and incredibly helpful!) discussion on other options and ideas, we've worked in a few other ideas and modified the original plan to incorporate pairs you've already discussed and plotted out. You can request to keep pairs you'd really like to keep from future rounds, but we'll have to work them into rounds 1/2 or maybe round 3. All round 1 plans will still be perfectly fine (just please re-comment!), and we'll take requests for matches in round 2. It'll be easiest to work around the round 1 brackets to accommodate round 2, but rounds 3/4 will be difficult to wiggle around and make work. We can try but nothing's guaranteed! Some match plans will need to be forfeited if you planned all the way up through round 4, but we'll try to meet in the middle as much as possible.
While it'd definitely be easier and fairer, we do understand that there may be others who would prefer not to do things that way just as well that there are those who would. So again, a poll! We're definitely doing our best to remain flexible on these larger events and keep an ear to the ground, but rest assured we won't keep bugging you with polls and wishy-washiness. I'm very sorry it took so long to get this post up, and it may seem too late-- but the event is still almost two weeks away. Bear with us a little longer!
To make our points/reasons clear, while we've said it in the mod plurk I'll say it again here: the entire point for bringing up the option of a do-over is so that we can plan everything out round by round, from the bottom up this time. Our largest problem and complaint is that people are planning for future rounds and not figuring out rounds 1/2/3, leaving those rounds to essentially be "who wants to die so my character can fight this person we've already planned in Round 3/4?", which is both upsetting for other players and is also making it a lot harder for us to map out the brackets. So, onto how this will work!
(And one last note-- if at any time you want to change your vote to agree/disagree with further discussion updates, you can change your vote via the link on the poll! It's greatly helping us to keep accurate numbers, so please do remember to change it if your idea changes.)
(EDIT: Jamie, 4/27 1AM) I've reworded most of the top plot details, and streamlined the edited-in updates we've discussed with players both in the mod plurk and on the entry here. I hope everything makes more sense! We'll add in any future updates at the bottom here dated/timed to PST.)
(EDIT: Jamie, 4/27 12PM) NVM on the weapons thing-- we're just gonna take the weird rule out altogether so people can come in with whatever they had on them on the time, and we can randomize weapons by request for anyone unarmed. o/
(EDIT: 27th 1AM) So we'd like to bring a re-tool to the table, and discuss randomization! While we'd definitely be keeping the mindfuckery spirit of things and the setting entirely, our proposed idea would be that everyone ICly chooses the partner that they trust the most as per usual for the first round, or everyone can go in alone and get randomly shuffled, or wait in the initial room like we already had laid out. But after that first match, we'd randomize the rest (with a few requested exceptions). This way would be a lot easier to sort into brackets and organize, but we also realize that a lot of people have already plotted out their rounds and may enjoy the CR potential. TL;DR Round 1 stays ICly picked, Rounds 2/3/4 are OOCly randomized and finalized.
After more (and incredibly helpful!) discussion on other options and ideas, we've worked in a few other ideas and modified the original plan to incorporate pairs you've already discussed and plotted out. You can request to keep pairs you'd really like to keep from future rounds, but we'll have to work them into rounds 1/2 or maybe round 3. All round 1 plans will still be perfectly fine (just please re-comment!), and we'll take requests for matches in round 2. It'll be easiest to work around the round 1 brackets to accommodate round 2, but rounds 3/4 will be difficult to wiggle around and make work. We can try but nothing's guaranteed! Some match plans will need to be forfeited if you planned all the way up through round 4, but we'll try to meet in the middle as much as possible.
While it'd definitely be easier and fairer, we do understand that there may be others who would prefer not to do things that way just as well that there are those who would. So again, a poll! We're definitely doing our best to remain flexible on these larger events and keep an ear to the ground, but rest assured we won't keep bugging you with polls and wishy-washiness. I'm very sorry it took so long to get this post up, and it may seem too late-- but the event is still almost two weeks away. Bear with us a little longer!
To make our points/reasons clear, while we've said it in the mod plurk I'll say it again here: the entire point for bringing up the option of a do-over is so that we can plan everything out round by round, from the bottom up this time. Our largest problem and complaint is that people are planning for future rounds and not figuring out rounds 1/2/3, leaving those rounds to essentially be "who wants to die so my character can fight this person we've already planned in Round 3/4?", which is both upsetting for other players and is also making it a lot harder for us to map out the brackets. So, onto how this will work!
- TL;DR, A POINT LIST:
- Everyone will keep/pick their first round ICly! The other options remain the same (going in alone, or just staying in the initial waiting room, period.)
- After a set time period open for discussion (say, ~72 hours) if winners haven't been decided and finalized in a sub-thread, we'll roll dice and decide for you.
- With Round 1 finalized, we'll take the winners and put them into a pot for randomized Round 2 matches-- or you can request to keep matches you've already worked out from the plotting post. The Round 2 thread will be open for discussion. Another 72 hours to discuss and decide on winners, rinse and repeat for Round 3 and Round 4. (maybe take the winner pot from each round and let people choose partners from it, randomizing the rest?)
- There is the option to SWAP OPPONENTS or KEEP PRE-PLANNED MATCHES! We'll be very flexible on this!
Poll #10298 what'll it be, what'll it be?
This poll is closed.
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: Just the Poll Creator, participants: 68
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: Just the Poll Creator, participants: 68
would you prefer to randomize the middle rounds?
sure! start over and randomize all but the first match!
37 (54.4%)
no thanks bro, leave it as-is.
31 (45.6%)
(And one last note-- if at any time you want to change your vote to agree/disagree with further discussion updates, you can change your vote via the link on the poll! It's greatly helping us to keep accurate numbers, so please do remember to change it if your idea changes.)
(EDIT: Jamie, 4/27 1AM) I've reworded most of the top plot details, and streamlined the edited-in updates we've discussed with players both in the mod plurk and on the entry here. I hope everything makes more sense! We'll add in any future updates at the bottom here dated/timed to PST.)
(EDIT: Jamie, 4/27 12PM) NVM on the weapons thing-- we're just gonna take the weird rule out altogether so people can come in with whatever they had on them on the time, and we can randomize weapons by request for anyone unarmed. o/

KESHINS?
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Re: KESHINS?
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umm...
I had no idea you guys changed the poll--I wouldnt have, except you commented to me, and I happened to read up.
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Sorry for asking something that's probably already been explained, but I do get confused easily. Are the moderators leaning for people to have their chosen matches, then randomise the rest?
Because I have three matches planned (1 for Ashley, 2 for Arioch), and I would love to keep those, but randomising any unplanned ones, I think that would be great.
But it sounds like a problem came from people choosing later rounds but having trouble with the first or second...? And some people not having much CR? Is that it?
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Edited to add: HERE IS WHAT I MEAN -- with the preplanned matches, nearly every slot to fill is a losing one, so randomizing around existing plans isn't really a solution I'm comfortable with (though if that's what people want, that's obviously okay).
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Probably nothing unless someone wants them, I guess. :|
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I also really don't do well with change. By changing it this way, it leaves less time for us to prepare for things--even if things are taken out of our hands by randomizing. People are not always easy to get ahold of, finals are coming up...idk man.
Honestly, to me it seems more as something we should do going forward, not scrap the work people have put into things, just to change it up. I realize that people are still struggling, but changing it like this, late in the game, is frustrating.
I'm glad that you guys are learning and willing to adjust for the playeres--trust me, I appreciate that. But if this happens, this will be the second time this plot has changed.
But again, I don't do well with sudden changes, and personally, this will change things I've already plotted going forward. (CR that was going to be gained by the people Erik fought in each round, etc) I'm not going to look forward to scrapping that, and trying to sort out what is going to go on going forward.
Again, this is just my two cents, but I really feel that this should be something implemented going forward, a 'leson' learned.
But this is from me, who's a pretty big planner, and someone who gets a lot of uncertainty/uncomfortable at sudden changes when things were already priorly decided. I know I'm probably in the minority on that, too.
...I guess the bottom line is that I'm personally very uncomfortable with this, but I will go with what the majority ends up deciding, and sort it out anyways.
You guys know me--I'll get any/all CR I can get.
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We'll definitely take requests for anyone that wants to keep CR they've worked out on rounds, and fill those in first before we randomize-- the only "catch" is that it'll be for Round 2 and maybe Round 3 (depending on how the bracketing goes/who wins and so on) until we plan further ahead. We're in no means expecting people to entirely drop their plans when they were excited about what they'd worked out, we just really need to work from the bottom up to make sure things are filled in properly.
The randomized matches themselves are by no means cemented, and we'll be doing our best to work out handwave requests/opt-outs together so that everything can line up nicely, I.E: Erik really only wants to battle Charles in round 3, and you'd prefer to handwave round 2, so round 2 will match you with an opt-outer whose character would ICly win round 1 but OOCly doesn't want to participate in the event. We'll be cutting down a lot of time by planning everything this way, and it's why we're stressing the importance of plotting from Round 1 and up.
Although I don't understand how it'd be the second time the plot has changed? If you mean the poll where we asked which version of the plots the playerbase as a whole preferred, neither of them were even pre-planned for use. We just had one that was harder to plot for but better suited for the physical location of Alpha Round, and the 1-on-1 which is easier to plot for but may have been better for Beta Round due to our planned setting. And since the location suitability is less important than the players who'd be planning/playing in it, we just asked for everyone to pick which they'd rather see and ran with it. I hope that makes sense!
We can definitely wiggle the plot dates around if everyone would prefer more time to plot ahead, but our current placement of it was more balanced with the surrounding plots-- I believe there's two weeks between the vines, the 1-on-1, and our final event start each. But we could shorten the final event by a week OOCly and push the 1-on-1 back a week if necessary; it wouldn't be a big loss! Even if it starts a little later, there's always endless time to backtag.
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Sorry for any typos, I'm on my phone.
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Obviously there's not going to be an ideal solution and it's frustrating for characters who are newer, but I think the people who have completely plotted everything out should be left to stand as much as possible, and randomize the rest? And again you'll get into that issue of fairness and people getting left out, but at least this way everyone could somehow get worked in? I should not try to talk while suffering from food coma but I see little point in undoing all the stuff that did get fully plotted or why there can't be some compromise between the two. I guess is my point.
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It might be easier to see if we want to proceed that way after I post the current brackets, however note that there are a LOT of holes. Also, for this plan to be viable, people would need to officially declare their battles, and that means in the post not in plurk, please.
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I agree with the people who want to keep their OOC planning for rounds 2+ though. It's going to be a little bit messy, but I suggest we make brackets and randomize to fill in the spots. Then going forward, if we do something like this again, we can randomize from the beginning.
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ON THE EDIT
Minato v RandomA
Sollux v Feferi
Aradia v RandomB
Sollux wants to go with Minato; RandomA is left to go with Feferi. Feferi wants to go with Aradia. Now RandomA is left to go with RandomB. And so on and so forth, all down the line. It's going to potentially get very confusing for people whose partners are leaving and swapping.
That's why I suggest having pairs sign up for Round 1 and announce their winners. Then you have a Round 1 Winners Pot, from which you let people pick their Round 2 partners. (Essentially nothing is really changing here. You've already worked out with another Round 1 team who's going to win, so your Round 2 partner will already be available in the pot.)
When people have chosen their Round 2 partners, you take all the rest and randomize them. This might also help in that people who were originally getting randomized will now have the ability to kind of work out, okay, who might I be able to plot with? It'll put things a little more into focus for everyone!
Then you do the same. You have a Round 3 Winners pot, let people choose, randomize whoever's left.
And so on!
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I've noticed people are saying stuff about those who have matches planned out to round 4. About if you have it planned, and people are still fine with it, you can keep it. I agree with this, but I also worry about the people who don't make it to round 4 yet still want to keep their matchups. There needs to be a compromise somewhere along the line. Forcing players to drop everything isn't going to make anyone happy.
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We aren't forcing anyone to drop anything nor would we ever ask that, and that's been there from the start of the post. I apologize if it wasn't worded too clearly! I've since edited it to make more sense and also updated everything we've discussed and added, and explained the way we had the randomization planned. Have a look and see...? c:
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I don't really like the idea. Not least because while a machine gun might even the sides if the other character comes from a canon where they know how to use a machine gun but simply didn't bring it with them, in cases where they've never touched/seen a gun at all before that won't be the case. In addition, I was looking forward to showing I-No's weapon in a fight -- she's from a fighting game and her weapon is a guitar and I want to play with that. In addition it's an important part of her fighting even though she has magic that can be accessed without it, it just... I don't see that it would even the playing field when some of the characters have powers not weapons, and it would make it much more irritating for me to actually write up.
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She CAN use guns and can probably use blades (hell, she even bought a machete on the island, so she's had practice with even that), but it'd make the fight a bit more... boring actually.
And hey, it's actually possible to defeat her octopus form with a knife,
if you're a really patient playerif the opponent is especially skilled in that kind of combat. Not to mention that if her opponent can knock her suit out of commission, it would only leave her to try to hug and straddle a person to death which would actually put her at far more of a disadvantage than giving her a weapon anyway.But that's my two cents! If people would rather randomize weapons, I'm okay with it, but like Snow said here, it really wouldn't even the playing field that much in my opinon.
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+1
I really appreciate you guys trying, but the new ideas really aren't appealing to me, or to a lot of other people, it looks like. I hope you can find another solution.
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Personally I don't see why the last weapon system was necessary, either. First of all, taking away weapons doesn't equate to leveling a playing field in the first place. It would if every character with magic powers had them taken away, but then it would be unfair to characters who didn't have weapon training outside their magic, or don't outside something really specific (like Jack and his Wu).
Secondly, having a really good weapon does not guarantee victory. It depends on how you use it, and if your opponent has the ingenuity to get around it. I feel like one of the major draws of this plot is, if you're not doing the super traumatic killing your best friend part, you get to play out your character fighting with characters from other canons and seeing how they match up and what the fight would be like. That's not as fun if the other characters aren't at full power.
tl;dr I think messing with the weapons at all adds unnecessary confusion and does nothing to accomplish what it's meant to accomplish, and I don't think it should be part of the plot at all.
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if there is the option to keep pre-planned matches, why do we still have to vote now? isn't it a little too early to be planning the randomizers? i've got nothing against it, it's good for people who don't have anything going on for the middle rounds. but that's the thing, you need it for people who haven't finalized anything, and at this point in time, it's too early to call it out. i mean sure, we can hash out plots as to who wins after round 1 and stuff but you don't know a) how many people will win that round and b) how many of those people already have plans and therefore won't be joining the randomizing. how do you know people won't be changing their minds between now and by the time this plot rolls out?
Our largest problem and complaint is that people are planning for future rounds and not figuring out rounds 1/2/3, leaving those rounds to essentially be "who wants to die so my character can fight this person we've already planned in Round 3/4?"
isn't that exactly how it's supposed to be planned out anyway? if character x is a character who is already god tier, it's easier to plot out which round x ends up in; then it's just a matter of filling up slots in between. and somehow this assumes that people aren't capable of planning their matches round by round, which i think is why a bunch of people are annoyed about this.
you guys have addressed the weapons issue, so i won't talk about that now. although the one thing i'll point out is that most of the people in the island have depleted ammo by now, and some of them are going to die because of that (ie. mine). if you randomize weapons for others i think you guys have to keep that in mind, in case KERNOS decides to hand out guns or bows and arrows or something, unless the island-wide ammo level also changed.
lastly, how are you guys planning to set this up? are you guys planning to have separate logs for round 1 and round 2 and then some consolidated log for 3/4? can some people set up their own fight logs (cause with the amount of people joining i imagine it can hit 100+ comments easily)?
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I agree with Misa-mun's idea of allowing set battles up until you cannot organize it yourself. If the problem is people are planning ahead without matches to fill the gap, that way it will ensure that gapes are filled in a pyramid fashion and no holes are left.
Or better yet, people are allowed to plan only one set of matches at a time. And whoever are left have to be randomized. Say... sign up for level 1 for the next 4 days. Then from the determined winners, sign up for level 2 are the following 3 days. Then level 3 in the 3 days after that, etc. And the by the end of 2-3 weeks, all 4 levels will be covered. That way, no one can jump ahead of the scale, everyone who wants to participate will have a fair chance at finding a partner they want, or is reassured by randomization. No one gets left out.
The only problem with this is it will be restricted to people who are active during the planning days, and as there are a lot of exams and hiatuses going on at the moment, it might be harder to achieve.
That's just my two cents.
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