voidnpcs: (cernunnos。)
MODS ARE VOID。 ([personal profile] voidnpcs) wrote in [community profile] resetvoid2012-04-26 08:00 am
Entry tags:
NSFW

so about that tournament...

Hey everyone! I'll keep this short and sweet, especially since it's 8AM and I'd like to get some sleep lmao. But we've had a few solid discussions, recommendations, crit, and even anon response about the tournament setup. We realize the godmodey, all-inclusive part of the event is hard to escape and that a lot of people are feeling left out without anyone to really work into pairings, especially the newer kids.

(EDIT: 27th 1AM) So we'd like to bring a re-tool to the table, and discuss randomization! While we'd definitely be keeping the mindfuckery spirit of things and the setting entirely, our proposed idea would be that everyone ICly chooses the partner that they trust the most as per usual for the first round, or everyone can go in alone and get randomly shuffled, or wait in the initial room like we already had laid out. But after that first match, we'd randomize the rest (with a few requested exceptions). This way would be a lot easier to sort into brackets and organize, but we also realize that a lot of people have already plotted out their rounds and may enjoy the CR potential. TL;DR Round 1 stays ICly picked, Rounds 2/3/4 are OOCly randomized and finalized.

After more (and incredibly helpful!) discussion on other options and ideas, we've worked in a few other ideas and modified the original plan to incorporate pairs you've already discussed and plotted out. You can request to keep pairs you'd really like to keep from future rounds, but we'll have to work them into rounds 1/2 or maybe round 3. All round 1 plans will still be perfectly fine (just please re-comment!), and we'll take requests for matches in round 2. It'll be easiest to work around the round 1 brackets to accommodate round 2, but rounds 3/4 will be difficult to wiggle around and make work. We can try but nothing's guaranteed! Some match plans will need to be forfeited if you planned all the way up through round 4, but we'll try to meet in the middle as much as possible.

While it'd definitely be easier and fairer, we do understand that there may be others who would prefer not to do things that way just as well that there are those who would. So again, a poll! We're definitely doing our best to remain flexible on these larger events and keep an ear to the ground, but rest assured we won't keep bugging you with polls and wishy-washiness. I'm very sorry it took so long to get this post up, and it may seem too late-- but the event is still almost two weeks away. Bear with us a little longer!

To make our points/reasons clear, while we've said it in the mod plurk I'll say it again here: the entire point for bringing up the option of a do-over is so that we can plan everything out round by round, from the bottom up this time. Our largest problem and complaint is that people are planning for future rounds and not figuring out rounds 1/2/3, leaving those rounds to essentially be "who wants to die so my character can fight this person we've already planned in Round 3/4?", which is both upsetting for other players and is also making it a lot harder for us to map out the brackets. So, onto how this will work!

  • TL;DR, A POINT LIST:
  • Everyone will keep/pick their first round ICly! The other options remain the same (going in alone, or just staying in the initial waiting room, period.)
  • After a set time period open for discussion (say, ~72 hours) if winners haven't been decided and finalized in a sub-thread, we'll roll dice and decide for you.
  • With Round 1 finalized, we'll take the winners and put them into a pot for randomized Round 2 matches-- or you can request to keep matches you've already worked out from the plotting post. The Round 2 thread will be open for discussion. Another 72 hours to discuss and decide on winners, rinse and repeat for Round 3 and Round 4. (maybe take the winner pot from each round and let people choose partners from it, randomizing the rest?)
  • There is the option to SWAP OPPONENTS or KEEP PRE-PLANNED MATCHES! We'll be very flexible on this!


Poll #10298 what'll it be, what'll it be?
This poll is closed.
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: Just the Poll Creator, participants: 68

would you prefer to randomize the middle rounds?

sure! start over and randomize all but the first match!
37 (54.4%)

no thanks bro, leave it as-is.
31 (45.6%)




(And one last note-- if at any time you want to change your vote to agree/disagree with further discussion updates, you can change your vote via the link on the poll! It's greatly helping us to keep accurate numbers, so please do remember to change it if your idea changes.)

(EDIT: Jamie, 4/27 1AM) I've reworded most of the top plot details, and streamlined the edited-in updates we've discussed with players both in the mod plurk and on the entry here. I hope everything makes more sense! We'll add in any future updates at the bottom here dated/timed to PST.)

(EDIT: Jamie, 4/27 12PM) NVM on the weapons thing-- we're just gonna take the weird rule out altogether so people can come in with whatever they had on them on the time, and we can randomize weapons by request for anyone unarmed. o/
fintastic: (blah blah blah)

[personal profile] fintastic 2012-04-26 03:14 pm (UTC)(link)
First off, thank you for addressing the issue. I like the idea of the randomization, conceptually, but how is that going to work, exactly? I mean I'm sure everyone will know if they're going to win for Round 1 or not, but then you're going to pit them against someone random for Round 2. How are you going to randomize it after that? You can't really randomize Round 3 or Round 4 until you know the winners from the previous round, since this is a single-elimination tournament. I know there's an option for swap requests, but that seems like it's likely to get even more messy.

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foepas: (can take it)

Re: KESHINS?

[personal profile] foepas 2012-04-26 03:16 pm (UTC)(link)
So I assume that the way it would work would be Round 1 is set up by us, victors determined, then OOCly randomize Round 2 -- random partners discuss relative abilities and determine who would win, then OOCly randomize round 3 after that's determined, and such forth for ?
speakstoroaches: (Default)

[personal profile] speakstoroaches 2012-04-26 04:16 pm (UTC)(link)
When will the poll close?
token_vengeance: (Default)

umm...

[personal profile] token_vengeance 2012-04-27 04:15 pm (UTC)(link)
could you guys singal boost this on the reset void page?

I had no idea you guys changed the poll--I wouldnt have, except you commented to me, and I happened to read up.

nowomb: (Default)

[personal profile] nowomb 2012-04-27 04:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I think I accidentally voted with [personal profile] babyhey, haha sorry about that.

Sorry for asking something that's probably already been explained, but I do get confused easily. Are the moderators leaning for people to have their chosen matches, then randomise the rest?

Because I have three matches planned (1 for Ashley, 2 for Arioch), and I would love to keep those, but randomising any unplanned ones, I think that would be great.

But it sounds like a problem came from people choosing later rounds but having trouble with the first or second...? And some people not having much CR? Is that it?

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divinecomedy: (steel a soul for a second chance.)

[personal profile] divinecomedy 2012-04-26 03:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd definitely prefer the randomization -- it's not that people weren't playing fair with regards to matches, it was just extremely messy, IMO, trying to get everybody to agree on a sequence of events, with the newer players and characters especially having a hard time getting in on things unless they had, like, a cast already. SO IT SEEMS FAIRER TO ME? Plus this way we all get a shot at new CR and we can sort of creatively plan the matches based on ~unknowns~. I like it!

Edited to add: HERE IS WHAT I MEAN -- with the preplanned matches, nearly every slot to fill is a losing one, so randomizing around existing plans isn't really a solution I'm comfortable with (though if that's what people want, that's obviously okay).
Edited (a picture is worth a thousand words?) 2012-04-26 18:49 (UTC)
convalesces: (But honey you cannot wrestle a dove)

[personal profile] convalesces 2012-04-26 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)
lol I still have no idea what to do with him for Round 1 (nor the char I haven't even played yet)...

Probably nothing unless someone wants them, I guess. :|
speakstoroaches: ([normal] thinking)

[personal profile] speakstoroaches 2012-04-26 04:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Honestly, for myself, I worked really hard to get things set up with both my characters (I know others did as well, and I also understand the frustrations that some people had. In fact, I had some as well).

I also really don't do well with change. By changing it this way, it leaves less time for us to prepare for things--even if things are taken out of our hands by randomizing. People are not always easy to get ahold of, finals are coming up...idk man.

Honestly, to me it seems more as something we should do going forward, not scrap the work people have put into things, just to change it up. I realize that people are still struggling, but changing it like this, late in the game, is frustrating.

I'm glad that you guys are learning and willing to adjust for the playeres--trust me, I appreciate that. But if this happens, this will be the second time this plot has changed.

But again, I don't do well with sudden changes, and personally, this will change things I've already plotted going forward. (CR that was going to be gained by the people Erik fought in each round, etc) I'm not going to look forward to scrapping that, and trying to sort out what is going to go on going forward.

Again, this is just my two cents, but I really feel that this should be something implemented going forward, a 'leson' learned.

But this is from me, who's a pretty big planner, and someone who gets a lot of uncertainty/uncomfortable at sudden changes when things were already priorly decided. I know I'm probably in the minority on that, too.

...I guess the bottom line is that I'm personally very uncomfortable with this, but I will go with what the majority ends up deciding, and sort it out anyways.

You guys know me--I'll get any/all CR I can get.
speakstoroaches: (Default)

[personal profile] speakstoroaches 2012-04-26 04:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Also I repeated myself like 5 times in this comment. wtf. Sorry.
sicarius: (Abbracio)

[personal profile] sicarius 2012-04-26 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Linds, ilu. You covered everything I wanted to say.

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lovesickkiller: (Eh?)

[personal profile] lovesickkiller 2012-04-26 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Why not just randomize people who don't already have plans made? Have a sign up for people who want to be randomized.
dormition: (Default)

[personal profile] dormition 2012-04-26 04:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I absolutely agree with this. Like Linds said, I absolutely don't want to leave anyone out, but forcing everyone who already plotted to start over is... idk, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and i'd be extremely disappointed. :/ I don't really see what advantage scrapping absolutely everything has over 1. Making a rule that you have to set your match ups in order, I.e. no round 3 without a set round 2, and 2. Randomizing everyone that wants to but still allowing player determined matches.

Sorry for any typos, I'm on my phone.

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maiditoutalive: (not my thing)

[personal profile] maiditoutalive 2012-04-26 04:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think it's- I hate to use the word fair, it doesn't feel right- but I feel uneasy with the idea that everyone who has plotted everything all the way to the end, or at least plotted to where they wanted their characters to get, should be required to give that up to randomize everything. But I also don't know that it should be left as is. Some people still need plans and could be randomly worked into the existing tournament, but at the same time, it's really...messy? that there are gaps, where something is assumed at a later time but the in between is left open. To me that's the biggest issue that needs to be fixed, along with working in people who still need to get involved somewhere, and those could be somehow solved simultaneously I think.

Obviously there's not going to be an ideal solution and it's frustrating for characters who are newer, but I think the people who have completely plotted everything out should be left to stand as much as possible, and randomize the rest? And again you'll get into that issue of fairness and people getting left out, but at least this way everyone could somehow get worked in? I should not try to talk while suffering from food coma but I see little point in undoing all the stuff that did get fully plotted or why there can't be some compromise between the two. I guess is my point.
maiditoutalive: (troubled)

[personal profile] maiditoutalive 2012-04-26 05:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay the more I think about that idea the less I like asking random people to be cannon fodder for unfilled brackets to fulfill other plans, so scratch that, it's not really a good compromise.
jackbotsattack: (Default)

[personal profile] jackbotsattack 2012-04-26 06:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I do have a suggestion that would allow for things not to be started over entirely, now that I think about it. There are currently 3 winners (since Trace dropped) that have told me so officially. When I get back to my dorm room after class (it's over at 3:30 CST, so 4:30 east coast, 1:30 west) I'll post what those current brackets look like. If those people in third/fourth rounds already are dead set on them and would not like to change (and can find people willing to fill the holes), they can keep them, and the rest of the winners brackets will be determined from people who have only picked their first rounds (or picked a second but no further) and randomization will proceed from the winners of those round ones. After all, we're looking at a good 6/7 winners, ish?

It might be easier to see if we want to proceed that way after I post the current brackets, however note that there are a LOT of holes. Also, for this plan to be viable, people would need to officially declare their battles, and that means in the post not in plurk, please.
Edited 2012-04-26 18:50 (UTC)
dormition: (Default)

[personal profile] dormition 2012-04-26 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I would be thrilled with this solution, given that everyone in my brackets is for it. If those people wanted to change I wouldn't mind at all and would try to, uh, reshuffle myself I guess? I'm not entirely sure how that would work out BUT YES if anyone in my current bracket wants to opt into this system and dump me, I do not mind, please go ahead. xD Otherwise this seems like a great idea for whatever my two cents is worth.
hawkejunior: (Default)

[personal profile] hawkejunior 2012-04-26 08:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the randomization is an excellent idea for those who want to participate but haven't already been able to work anything out past round one (like... me, for example.)

I agree with the people who want to keep their OOC planning for rounds 2+ though. It's going to be a little bit messy, but I suggest we make brackets and randomize to fill in the spots. Then going forward, if we do something like this again, we can randomize from the beginning.
jackbotsattack: (Default)

[personal profile] jackbotsattack 2012-04-26 08:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Brackets are made, and we're going to be doing that if the system doesn't change, however many people are worried that that means their fights will only be randomized so that they can be a stepping stone for others who have already decided to win, and that their fight won't mean anything, which is why I'm hesitant to say that randomizing only to fill in already decided slots is a good solution.
fintastic: (Default)

ON THE EDIT

[personal profile] fintastic 2012-04-26 08:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay that's a lot clearer now for sure! My only concern is that randomizing everyone at first and THEN having people swapping around is going to do two things: one, make more work. And two, be really really messy. Like lets say for Round 2, you had:

Minato v RandomA
Sollux v Feferi
Aradia v RandomB

Sollux wants to go with Minato; RandomA is left to go with Feferi. Feferi wants to go with Aradia. Now RandomA is left to go with RandomB. And so on and so forth, all down the line. It's going to potentially get very confusing for people whose partners are leaving and swapping.

That's why I suggest having pairs sign up for Round 1 and announce their winners. Then you have a Round 1 Winners Pot, from which you let people pick their Round 2 partners. (Essentially nothing is really changing here. You've already worked out with another Round 1 team who's going to win, so your Round 2 partner will already be available in the pot.)

When people have chosen their Round 2 partners, you take all the rest and randomize them. This might also help in that people who were originally getting randomized will now have the ability to kind of work out, okay, who might I be able to plot with? It'll put things a little more into focus for everyone!

Then you do the same. You have a Round 3 Winners pot, let people choose, randomize whoever's left.

And so on!

Edited 2012-04-26 21:00 (UTC)
sicarius: (Cauto)

[personal profile] sicarius 2012-04-26 11:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Guys, I understand wanting to be fair, but there are a lot of us who want to keep things as they are too. I want to keep my rounds that are already plotted. It makes it unfair to get rid of any CR we want to have, and I don't mind splitting things 50/50. I have muses who still need matchups, and ones who have things done from the start. To suddenly wipe the slate clean and go HEY HERE'S YOUR MATCHUPS LOL YOU GET NO SAY WHO YOU FIGHT AND HAVE TO SWITCH STUFF makes it so much more of a hassle.

I've noticed people are saying stuff about those who have matches planned out to round 4. About if you have it planned, and people are still fine with it, you can keep it. I agree with this, but I also worry about the people who don't make it to round 4 yet still want to keep their matchups. There needs to be a compromise somewhere along the line. Forcing players to drop everything isn't going to make anyone happy.
gstringwitch: (Marlene)

[personal profile] gstringwitch 2012-04-27 02:22 pm (UTC)(link)
How would everyone feel about disarming everyone completely from the start and providing randomized weapons in the match rooms?

I don't really like the idea. Not least because while a machine gun might even the sides if the other character comes from a canon where they know how to use a machine gun but simply didn't bring it with them, in cases where they've never touched/seen a gun at all before that won't be the case. In addition, I was looking forward to showing I-No's weapon in a fight -- she's from a fighting game and her weapon is a guitar and I want to play with that. In addition it's an important part of her fighting even though she has magic that can be accessed without it, it just... I don't see that it would even the playing field when some of the characters have powers not weapons, and it would make it much more irritating for me to actually write up.
fuckinghysterical: (LB Suit - Man mask EH?)

+1

[personal profile] fuckinghysterical 2012-04-27 03:50 pm (UTC)(link)
A huge part of the appeal in writing fighting scenes, for me, is describing the way the suit this girl wears moves, and if she makes it past the first round (and that's a big IF), I kind of wanted to use her suit's power to try to morph herself into people she's maybe noticed her opponent talk to on the network (see? all that network stalking DOES pay off!) for mindfuck opportunities, but if her suit was taken away from her, that would really take a lot of chances away to explore some of the more interesting possibilities with her.

She CAN use guns and can probably use blades (hell, she even bought a machete on the island, so she's had practice with even that), but it'd make the fight a bit more... boring actually.

And hey, it's actually possible to defeat her octopus form with a knife, if you're a really patient player if the opponent is especially skilled in that kind of combat. Not to mention that if her opponent can knock her suit out of commission, it would only leave her to try to hug and straddle a person to death which would actually put her at far more of a disadvantage than giving her a weapon anyway.

But that's my two cents! If people would rather randomize weapons, I'm okay with it, but like Snow said here, it really wouldn't even the playing field that much in my opinon.
easilyamused: (Default)

[personal profile] easilyamused 2012-04-27 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I really, really don't like the idea of all characters being disarmed and assigned randomized weapons. It wouldn't have any impact whatsoever on characters who use powers to fight, would hamstring a lot of the combat-capable normals since there's a high percentage of specialists, and wouldn't really give any sort of advantage to the combat-incapable characters unless they happen to know how to use that particular weapon despite preferring not to fight, or get an auto-targetting nuke launcher. The widening of the gulf between powered and non-powered characters could be eliminated by nuking powers entirely - but that would just create a further level of player frustration, which is already riding pretty high at the moment.
overloads: (So you can take this chance)

+1

[personal profile] overloads 2012-04-27 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
This. I appreciate you guys trying to level the playing field, but you've already irritated/frustrated a lot of us who liked things the way they were. Taking away all weapons and throwing new ones at characters will only cause more confusion for players and planning, not lessen it. I understand you want to make things fair, but this is... well. Changing things like this makes it a little ridiculous for us to keep up, and to work with everything at once.

I really appreciate you guys trying, but the new ideas really aren't appealing to me, or to a lot of other people, it looks like. I hope you can find another solution.
heartbeatbomb: (Default)

[personal profile] heartbeatbomb 2012-04-27 05:59 pm (UTC)(link)
After thinking on it more, I'm really, really against randomization of weapons. It doesn't level the playing field, it just fucks up the playing field for characters with specific weapon training and gives an advantage to characters with magical powers or who fight barehanded. It also takes away some of the interest for me that I don't get to fight other characters at their strongest, which is also something one of my characters would ICly dislike and it might change how their fight would go drastically, when it was a fight I was really excited about.

Personally I don't see why the last weapon system was necessary, either. First of all, taking away weapons doesn't equate to leveling a playing field in the first place. It would if every character with magic powers had them taken away, but then it would be unfair to characters who didn't have weapon training outside their magic, or don't outside something really specific (like Jack and his Wu).

Secondly, having a really good weapon does not guarantee victory. It depends on how you use it, and if your opponent has the ingenuity to get around it. I feel like one of the major draws of this plot is, if you're not doing the super traumatic killing your best friend part, you get to play out your character fighting with characters from other canons and seeing how they match up and what the fight would be like. That's not as fun if the other characters aren't at full power.

tl;dr I think messing with the weapons at all adds unnecessary confusion and does nothing to accomplish what it's meant to accomplish, and I don't think it should be part of the plot at all.
rocked: (Default)

[personal profile] rocked 2012-04-27 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Not voting because I honestly don't have much of an opinion here; all the possibilities sound interesting to me in their own ways, so I can work with whatever people decide. If you decide to randomize it, I definitely want Clove to be thrown into the mix.
thekiller: (Default)

[personal profile] thekiller 2012-04-28 01:05 am (UTC)(link)
okay, i've read this post, and hopefully i got things right. otherwise, feel free to correct me.

if there is the option to keep pre-planned matches, why do we still have to vote now? isn't it a little too early to be planning the randomizers? i've got nothing against it, it's good for people who don't have anything going on for the middle rounds. but that's the thing, you need it for people who haven't finalized anything, and at this point in time, it's too early to call it out. i mean sure, we can hash out plots as to who wins after round 1 and stuff but you don't know a) how many people will win that round and b) how many of those people already have plans and therefore won't be joining the randomizing. how do you know people won't be changing their minds between now and by the time this plot rolls out?

Our largest problem and complaint is that people are planning for future rounds and not figuring out rounds 1/2/3, leaving those rounds to essentially be "who wants to die so my character can fight this person we've already planned in Round 3/4?"

isn't that exactly how it's supposed to be planned out anyway? if character x is a character who is already god tier, it's easier to plot out which round x ends up in; then it's just a matter of filling up slots in between. and somehow this assumes that people aren't capable of planning their matches round by round, which i think is why a bunch of people are annoyed about this.

you guys have addressed the weapons issue, so i won't talk about that now. although the one thing i'll point out is that most of the people in the island have depleted ammo by now, and some of them are going to die because of that (ie. mine). if you randomize weapons for others i think you guys have to keep that in mind, in case KERNOS decides to hand out guns or bows and arrows or something, unless the island-wide ammo level also changed.

lastly, how are you guys planning to set this up? are you guys planning to have separate logs for round 1 and round 2 and then some consolidated log for 3/4? can some people set up their own fight logs (cause with the amount of people joining i imagine it can hit 100+ comments easily)?
distinctive_guy: (Distinctive Look)

[personal profile] distinctive_guy 2012-04-28 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
As the vote is showing to be pretty close at the moment, 36 vs 31, I think it's obvious that no matter which side is chosen, there will still be nearly half the players who don't like it. I think a compromise between the two ideas is definitely needed.

I agree with Misa-mun's idea of allowing set battles up until you cannot organize it yourself. If the problem is people are planning ahead without matches to fill the gap, that way it will ensure that gapes are filled in a pyramid fashion and no holes are left.

Or better yet, people are allowed to plan only one set of matches at a time. And whoever are left have to be randomized. Say... sign up for level 1 for the next 4 days. Then from the determined winners, sign up for level 2 are the following 3 days. Then level 3 in the 3 days after that, etc. And the by the end of 2-3 weeks, all 4 levels will be covered. That way, no one can jump ahead of the scale, everyone who wants to participate will have a fair chance at finding a partner they want, or is reassured by randomization. No one gets left out.

The only problem with this is it will be restricted to people who are active during the planning days, and as there are a lot of exams and hiatuses going on at the moment, it might be harder to achieve.

That's just my two cents.

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