Tangential to all the wankery
Jan. 1st, 2007 04:21 pmBy now you've certainly all read about the
harry_holidays wank. If not, well, the whole thing is rehearsed in glorious Technicolor here on Fandom Wank, and probably all over your flist as well.
Fine, fine--let's not go through the entire thing again. I read all the comments that were up last night and some of the stuff posted today, too-- and had some meta thoughts tangential to it--mainly my ideas about why such a thing would inspire so much debate and rancor. I see a few issues here:
1. What we are doing in fandom, or the obligations of volunteer/avocational work
2. What people reveal when they discuss kinks/squicks
3. Homemade smut and its social role
1. What we are doing in fandom, or the obligations of volunteer/avocational work
I want to throw the first one out as a question. Do you consider uncompensated work you do for aesthetic pleasure, community building or even a political common good, to be as strong an obligation as work for pay? Are things you do just for fun on the same level as other volunteer work, say for your religious community or for charity?
The reason I'm posing it this way is, some people in fandom take their writing assignments as seriously as writing they are doing for publication, and others--really don't. Moderating fan fiction exchanges is definitely a lot of work and involves a contract of sorts with participants. It's much more likely that participants won't hold up their end of the bargain. I think without peer pressure and community expectations, we wouldn't put in this kind of effort.
Though maybe people put more effort into their uncompensated labors of love than they do into their paid work as a matter of course. In any case, how people react to what the responsibilities of a fest mod or fest participants are and what those people can expect from one another has a lot to do with this question--the question of uncompensated work.
2. What people reveal when they discuss kinks/squicks
I was discussing the present wankery in flocked LJ comments and I said:
to which
xochiquetzl replied:
I believe and have said emphatically everywhere that literary tastes do not correspond to sexual tastes. But it's also true that we reveal a lot about ourselves when we let people know that we like to read stories about m/m sex, with this kink or that.
I come to fandom with bouncy optimism about the tolerance and ability to accomodate each other I saw here. i wrote last year:
To me, it's a big violation of trust to ask someone to tell their kinks and squicks with the expectation that these will be honored, and then to post a story that mocks them for what they like. I say this having been defriended by two people immediately after I posted a list of my kinks and squicks! I think a lot of us operate as though it's safe to have different smut reading and writing preferences--and indeed, safe to like different things sexually, though of course that's quite separate--and it's really not.
I want it to be, and I'm going to keep trying to act that way, but I see--it's not safe to let people know what you like on the page, much less in bed! There are also real-life risks--repercussions at work or at home, from people who think liking porn is really bad, for example.
All of which is to say, it's not surprising that violating the ethical contract of a fic fest by mocking someone's squicks and preferences would upset people who weren't even involved. It's got to be a hot-button issue.
Which leads me to:
3. Homemade smut and its social role
The so-brilliant
accio_arse wrote in her journal this morning:
That's where I am too. Mainstream porn? Destroying the moral fiber of the universe! Homemade porn? Liberating our consciousness with our sexuality and also making our teeth whiter and our breath fresher!
Which is, perhaps, entirely unrealistic. Fan writers are just as liable to the wider culture's varieties of sexism, objectification, and general ickiness as anyone else.
But I always hope they aren't, and when stuff dusts up, I feel so disappointed. I think I'm not alone in this. I noticed with a sense of the absurdity of it, how much effort I put into the description of sexual acts that I don't--couldn't!--do myself. It's like knitting a sweater or frosting a cupcake or detailing a car. You are just doing it for fun but you have to do a good job. But it's also supposed to be just for fun, and not something we take terribly seriously. We can't really decide what ethics govern our behavior if nothing we do is meaningful--if it's all just for the LOLZ, who can complain?
See, everything you think is going to be something trivial boils down to something major! This wank is about nothing less than the commodification of art and the role of the alienation of labor in the culture of irony! My poor husband, now he's going to have to listen to me quoting Shlomo Avineri. See what you've started?
Fine, fine--let's not go through the entire thing again. I read all the comments that were up last night and some of the stuff posted today, too-- and had some meta thoughts tangential to it--mainly my ideas about why such a thing would inspire so much debate and rancor. I see a few issues here:
1. What we are doing in fandom, or the obligations of volunteer/avocational work
2. What people reveal when they discuss kinks/squicks
3. Homemade smut and its social role
1. What we are doing in fandom, or the obligations of volunteer/avocational work
I want to throw the first one out as a question. Do you consider uncompensated work you do for aesthetic pleasure, community building or even a political common good, to be as strong an obligation as work for pay? Are things you do just for fun on the same level as other volunteer work, say for your religious community or for charity?
The reason I'm posing it this way is, some people in fandom take their writing assignments as seriously as writing they are doing for publication, and others--really don't. Moderating fan fiction exchanges is definitely a lot of work and involves a contract of sorts with participants. It's much more likely that participants won't hold up their end of the bargain. I think without peer pressure and community expectations, we wouldn't put in this kind of effort.
Though maybe people put more effort into their uncompensated labors of love than they do into their paid work as a matter of course. In any case, how people react to what the responsibilities of a fest mod or fest participants are and what those people can expect from one another has a lot to do with this question--the question of uncompensated work.
2. What people reveal when they discuss kinks/squicks
I was discussing the present wankery in flocked LJ comments and I said:
The reason this all blew up, I think, is that people who write for fic fests want to be able to trust that if they tell what they like and don't, they won't be held up for ridicule.
to which
Yeah. I did a poll at my LJ once. People almost universally said it was much harder to say what they really wanted. Some said they'd rather get an okay fic that doesn't hit all their kinks than admit their kinks in public. Signing up for an exchange is an act of courage.
I believe and have said emphatically everywhere that literary tastes do not correspond to sexual tastes. But it's also true that we reveal a lot about ourselves when we let people know that we like to read stories about m/m sex, with this kink or that.
I come to fandom with bouncy optimism about the tolerance and ability to accomodate each other I saw here. i wrote last year:
I really love the model of having people post warnings at the tops of their stories. It shows we have figured out, at least to some small degree, that we don't all feel sexuality the same way. We get that everyone is different, and can encourage more than one view of sexuality. Our whole vocabulary of kinks and squicks is a sophisticated acknowledgement of the varieties of human sexual experience.
To me, it's a big violation of trust to ask someone to tell their kinks and squicks with the expectation that these will be honored, and then to post a story that mocks them for what they like. I say this having been defriended by two people immediately after I posted a list of my kinks and squicks! I think a lot of us operate as though it's safe to have different smut reading and writing preferences--and indeed, safe to like different things sexually, though of course that's quite separate--and it's really not.
I want it to be, and I'm going to keep trying to act that way, but I see--it's not safe to let people know what you like on the page, much less in bed! There are also real-life risks--repercussions at work or at home, from people who think liking porn is really bad, for example.
All of which is to say, it's not surprising that violating the ethical contract of a fic fest by mocking someone's squicks and preferences would upset people who weren't even involved. It's got to be a hot-button issue.
Which leads me to:
3. Homemade smut and its social role
The so-brilliant
This is how I see my fandom porn: I have a rose-tinted image of happy writers and artists, alone in their rooms, merrily churning out reams of finely handcrafted smut for the sheer pleasure of it. It’s a veritable pornutopia!
Whereas the porn industry, according to my information, generates more revenue each year than the mainstream movie industry does. It’s a behemoth of a money-making beast; don’t underestimate it. Do I really want something like that impinging on my version of smutdom? I think not. It may seem like an unrealistic and idealistic position to take, but you know, that’s just me.
That's where I am too. Mainstream porn? Destroying the moral fiber of the universe! Homemade porn? Liberating our consciousness with our sexuality and also making our teeth whiter and our breath fresher!
Which is, perhaps, entirely unrealistic. Fan writers are just as liable to the wider culture's varieties of sexism, objectification, and general ickiness as anyone else.
But I always hope they aren't, and when stuff dusts up, I feel so disappointed. I think I'm not alone in this. I noticed with a sense of the absurdity of it, how much effort I put into the description of sexual acts that I don't--couldn't!--do myself. It's like knitting a sweater or frosting a cupcake or detailing a car. You are just doing it for fun but you have to do a good job. But it's also supposed to be just for fun, and not something we take terribly seriously. We can't really decide what ethics govern our behavior if nothing we do is meaningful--if it's all just for the LOLZ, who can complain?
See, everything you think is going to be something trivial boils down to something major! This wank is about nothing less than the commodification of art and the role of the alienation of labor in the culture of irony! My poor husband, now he's going to have to listen to me quoting Shlomo Avineri. See what you've started?
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Date: 2007-01-01 10:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-01 10:29 pm (UTC)I believe that the public admission of kinks and squicks is brave, and also important. Important in a "healing yourself" kind of way, I mean.
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Date: 2007-01-01 10:31 pm (UTC)I like to pinch hit in exchanges more than actually sign up. I suppose it's because I'm just so vanilla on my kinks that I think someone would be bored shitless writing something for me. LOL . Plus there's so many fics, that's a gift in itself, esp if you go to a comm that's just about H/D or just Snupin, etc.
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Date: 2007-01-01 10:36 pm (UTC)Hey, I'm always happy to write vanilla smut in an exchange. Sometimes it's a relief. :)
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Date: 2007-01-01 10:39 pm (UTC)I've decided--I can do research and find out why other people like various things, and I'll grow as a writer that way.
I agree that pinch hitting is probably the most valuable thing a person can do for a fest.
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Date: 2007-01-01 10:50 pm (UTC)And I'm sure that there are plenty of people who'd be willing to write vanilla. I would. I usually volunteer to write kink because I'm afraid people will ask for it and there won't be enough authors willing to write it, but it's hardly a requirement.
(no subject)
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Date: 2007-01-01 10:43 pm (UTC)Anyway, your well-reasoned analysis was a lot more sophisticated than what I just said. But there ya go.
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Date: 2007-01-01 10:49 pm (UTC)Oh, that's a perfect point! I didn't even know about the reviews thing. Yes, the contract is supposed to both obligate you to a high quality of writing and absolve you from any problems (that could conceivably be the result of following someone else's prompt!) But I think that's a good contract!
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-01-01 10:55 pm (UTC)Take fanfic, for example. While I write a fair number of parodies and other humor pieces, I take the act of writing fanfic pretty seriously. I almost always use betas, I do research, I make sure I canon check to the best of my abilities. However, I have zero problem with people who are all "LOL i r On a sUgAr HI!!" and write self-inserts and Mary Sues and don't use spellcheck because they think it's all too much trouble and gets in the way of their fun. I'm probably not going to read their fic, but what they want to write and the way they choose to write it is totally their business...because fandom is for fun (it's just that my fun involves being reasonably serious about my writing).
On the other hand, if I'm in a fic exchange and people start dropping out right and left in the last few weeks (apart from real life emergencies and illnesses and things), well...I have very little sympathy. When you make a commitment to write/draw/otherwise create something for another person (and here I'm not talking about the quality of the created work), then yeah...I think in those cases "fandom is serious business."
Understand, this is just me. I recognize that a lot of people in fandom don't share this viewpoint: they either think it's all serious ("People who don't use spellcheck should die!") or it's all for LULZ ("Oh, come on...I just emailed your boss with the URL of your website - don't you have a sense of humor?"). But for me, there's a clear dividing line, because one set of behavior has the potential to hurt other people and the other doesn't.
Um...okay, some sets of behavior shouldn't have the potential to hurt other people (*thinks back to people literally in tears in long-ago fandoms when list members said uncomplimentary things about their favorite characters*)
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Date: 2007-01-01 11:59 pm (UTC)The whole thing makes me want to take up amateur folksinging, instead...
(Just kidding! Eeee!)
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Date: 2007-01-01 10:55 pm (UTC)But having read that whole wank, it strikes me as a very different thing from writing with an eye on the community and actively dismissng or mocking the desires of the giftee.
As far as what we reveal when we state our own desires, it's not just in the bald stating of them in those requests that we reveal ourselves. In writing the story we reveal a lot about our own tastes and desires, both literary and sexual. Because however much I might write to please the giftee, I'm writing me onto the page in some respect--and I was very aware that whatever didn't seem to fit the giftee would reveal to the community-at-large a lot about what I like, and who I am. In some ways, writing slash feels riskier and more revealing than merely talking about my kinks in my LJ, because writing them is so much more detailed. I'm not simply saying, "I like reading about it this way." I'm showing, in detail, in some nine thousand words, what that particular way looks like--what the inside of my own headspace looks like. And writing for a gift exchange doesn't entirely ameliorate that risk.
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Date: 2007-01-01 11:58 pm (UTC)Taking the risk to show yourself in your writing--when people fail to do that, I often feel cheated. Like I'm offering my real self to them and they are offering me something rote. I've complained about this before, and it sounds like literary snobbery a little. But I don't mean it that way--I want to hear the person's real voice and see what they care about.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-01-01 10:59 pm (UTC)I'm one of the people who likes to think she puts a lot of effort into exchange fic/gift fic. Fine, my quinquatrus attempt was late, but everyone ran late in that challenge and the mod extended the deadline. But I got my rs-small-gifts fic in well on time, and would have done second stories if I hadn't been in a place with highly unreliable a net connection. As far as I can see, I should approach my voluntary fic writing committments the same way I approach my voluntary work committments. If I say I'll be there, I have to be there. And I should make every attempt to do it as well as I possibly can.
And yes, admitting to kinks - even in online fandom, which is a relatively safe space - is remarkably difficult. It's so so much easier to say you don't want to receive such and such than say you'd love to receive x, y and z. Kinks are so personal and scary to admit. Liberating when we do though. And that's the good thing about homemade porn. We're taking control of our sexuality and desires and creating something out of it. Something that isn't for profit and doesn't benefit the capitalist system. All it does is gratify a part of us that we don't generally air this freely. I mean, I know very few people who would walk around in rl saying how much they like reading about people having sex with dogs, but there's a lot of Remus/Padfoot fic out there.
This comment is not saying anything new, or particularly ground breaking. But it is a testament to the power of your meta!
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Date: 2007-01-01 11:02 pm (UTC)Holy hell -- what were the circumstances?
For those of us who think we're having harmless fun and possibly improving our writing skills, that's just really, really scary.
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Date: 2007-01-02 12:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-01-01 11:02 pm (UTC)Yes and yes. I take what I do and have done in fandom very seriously indeed, even though I do it for fun. If I'm not going to give it my best, why should I bother?
Assuming that what someone likes in terms of kinks and squicks in literature is the same as what they like (much less do) in RL is, um, a pretty unjustified assumption, isn't it? There may be perfect correspondence or there may be none at all. I've written bestiality, but if someone takes that to mean that I really want to be anally fucked by a wolf, they're crazy. Yeesh. It's never even occurred to me to think of listing my kinks as an expression of trust. Evidently I have a rather different take from yours, and perhaps from many people's. I'd be unhappy, even angry if someone wrote me a chan mpreg fic with rape for an exchange, mind you, but I wouldn't quite see it as a violation of trust, more as the person being an asshat.
Homemade smut vs. the porn industry -- here I think a lot of the difference is in the medium and the profit or lack thereof. Film and photography use (and abuse) the bodies of living people, and when it's in the industry, profit is the motive. Amateur photography or film is somewhat less problematic for me since there's a reasonable assumption that the participants are voluntary. Written porn, especially amateur stuff, doesn't have the issue of using other people at all, and again the amateurs participating are doing so on a voluntary basis. Me, I like written porn best anyhow as a certain amount of leaving-things-to-the-imagination makes it much more fun. *g*
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Date: 2007-01-01 11:39 pm (UTC)Of course, but you would be surprised at how many people both within and outside of fandom have conflicting ideas on this point. For example, have you ever read any discussion of rape fantasies? At least two or three times when I first joined fandom, I witnessed wank about whether it was okay or oppressive to write non-con. Then there's Australia's child pornography legislation.
Anyway, even though I don't think literary kink is equivalent to sexual kink, there is still a lot you learn about a person from what they like to read. Maybe more than some people would like to reveal about themselves.
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Date: 2007-01-01 11:53 pm (UTC)All of which is to say, it's not surprising that violating the ethical contract of a fic fest by mocking someone's squicks and preferences would upset people who weren't even involved. It's got to be a hot-button issue.
It's triggering people's fear of being "betrayed" like that as well...not "only" in a fic fest, but on a larger scale, as you mentioned later as well. It's a "that could happen to all of us if we're too open/trusting" thing.
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Date: 2007-01-02 12:31 am (UTC)To write something like that for a gift was pure asshattery. The authors are fucktards, pure and simple. It would have been nice if the mod had read it and realized just what might happen, but I will not criticize someone who had offered to take on the task of a gift exchange. There are a hundred reasons why that got by her, but I don't think malice remotely came into it. The authors, I will not acquit of that charge.
As for admitting your kinks and squicks, yeah, that can be a bit scary. Or I found it to be so when I came face to face with several hundred other HP fans, a number of whom recognized me as the author of a BDSM fic. And these people still didn't know me - they just had a face to go with a made up name. Fortunately, none of them turned out to be a co-worker. :)
I think, "Don't be mean" covers it rather well. We're here for the fun of it, so play nice, and also give others the benefit of the doubt.
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Date: 2007-01-02 01:05 am (UTC)I'm tempted to look up the squick lists of the two perpetrators now...Ps
Date: 2007-01-02 01:06 am (UTC)I meant to write her personal tastes >< ...
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-01-02 11:35 am (UTC)My thoughts on your meta, however inane they may be:
I'd like to think that I can come into fandom with the intent of respecting other people and receive the same respect in return. It is the same thing I hope to get out of my real life. Every so often in both instances I am floored by other people who are just not willing to give that to me, because it isn't what they want out of our relationship. It is upsetting but at the end of the day I still want to get what I came for out of fandom. I'm here because I like to write and I like to read. I am here because I know if I write something for someone they will probably appreciate it. It may even make them as happy as it makes me when someone writes something for me. I am here because it feels good to give words and to receive words in return when stringing words together is so important to me.
In that sense I take fandom very seriously. so in asking myself if I consider uncompensated work I do for aesthetic pleasure to be as strong an obligation as work for pay? I'd say yes. I agreed to be here. What's more, I wanted to be here. In a fest I wanted to get something wonderful from someone. I should be willing to give everything I have available back. I feel this is a compensated work. I am giving of myself in the hopes that I can get as much back. That only works if both parties are willing to do that.
On the matter of kinks, I think you are right on. It does take a certain level of courage to admit to what you want to read or write. Fandom isn't always a compartment completely separate from your real life. It is still you who people are judging when they judge what you like and dislike even if it is only fanfiction. I grew up different in a closed minded community. I still get that roiling fear that everyone in fandom will one day realise I am an idiot and or a freak and abandon my f-list. I have to test the waters of what I am comfortable saying or reading before I admit I am comfortable doing it. That is usually one of the great things about fandom. There will always be people who don't write what squicks you and people who will write what does it for you. I think it was just a bad call on the part of the writers here to have gone against it. Even without malicious intent, just a bad call all around.
That's where I am too. Mainstream porn? Destroying the moral fiber of the universe! Homemade porn? Liberating our consciousness with our sexuality and also making our teeth whiter and our breath fresher!
That is just absolutely quote worthy.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-02 12:03 pm (UTC)If only this was limited to just fanfiction. For about four years I lived in Florida and was a HUGE anime fan. I loved making costumes and going to then 100 conventions that they had in the state. This particular fandom of cosplay was so much fun when I started out. I met so many cool people that were talented and/or just pretty dang amazing.
The longer I stuck with it the uglier it became. People's true natures came out and they were ugly. It hurt to be around people that were arrogant, rude, mocking, and just plain mean. My partner and I finally put our foot down and stepped out of it. We really did stop cosplaying because we didn't want to have to ever be around those kinds of people. But in the end, is that really fair to us? I enjoyed cosplaying. Because of that I became a photographer and my partner is looking into running her own costume/fashion company.
I think that sometimes it's good to step back, but at the same time it's sad because why should you feel like that's the only way. You shouldn't have to hide everything you put into your costumes (or in this case fics.) You've got a talent and you've shared it with people just because someone is a jerk, doesn't mean that you should stop sharing with people that are honestly interested.
The end of my story is that Harry Potter saved our soul. XD Since we've become big Harry Potter fans, my partner sews even more and was pointed at more times at Lumos as the "phoenix girl" than we can remember. I'm happy that Harry Potter fans are more fun and from what I've found generally open and kind people. I'm glad that I can still apply my talents to something and still have fun with it.
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Date: 2007-01-02 12:41 pm (UTC)I don't think that weird and unpleasant behavior is limited to fandom. I think it's an issue of all volunteer work in a capitalist society. I should have made the comparison to religion and politics and charitable work much more explicit!
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Date: 2007-01-02 12:21 pm (UTC)1. To me, a committment I make to someone else is a committment. It doesn't matter whether I'm being paid or not, or whether it's for "charity" or some other socially praised purpose or just to make someone happy. Even if it's "just for LOLZ," if I promised someone else I'd do something for them then to me that's binding and if something comes up which prevents me from doing it then I'm going to feel just as shitty as if it were for a more serious purpose.
And yeah, sometimes RL does whack you on the back of the head with a board. I've had my share of blown committments and some of them still have the power to make me wince when I think about them twenty years later. If someone has a true emergency come up then I'll certainly agree that RL comes ahead of fanac. But when I see fests with literally half the people who claimed prompts never posting anything, I really have to wonder how many of those people had actual emergencies and how many just couldn't be arsed when it came down to it, and justified it by telling themselves that "It's only fandom, nothing important, just for LOLZ," when the truth is that when they said, "Hey, I'll write this prompt you submitted," they'd made a committment and the person who'd submitted the prompt was really looking forward to reading the story.
Bottom line, to me a committment is serious, no matter what it's for or whether someone is getting paid.
2. Basically, yeah. I'm nowhere near as shy about letting people know what my taste in erotic reading is as I used to be, but I understand that for many people it's a major expression of trust to list the kinks they like to read. A betrayal of that trust is despicable.
3. I disagree that commercial smut is particularly heinous. I think amateur smut fills a valuable role in that because it doesn't need to make a profit, it can cater to audiences too small to be noticed by the professional porn houses of whatever medium. And of course it's cool that we can get a whole boatload of erotic lit, some of it actually pretty well written, for free. :) But I'm not going to condemn the whole commercial sex industry for whatever reasons. Frankly, I'd love to be able to get paid to write my porn. :P I'm certainly not going to sneer at the people who do get paid, just because I don't and can't.
Angie
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Date: 2007-01-02 12:38 pm (UTC)I think it's interesting how many people are saying that they regard their committments to volunteer activities, including fandom, as binding. I do think this is a big part of what fuels the outrage in various sorts of wank. People do regard their volunteer activities as work, sometimes as their REAL work.
I have fallen out of touch with a friend who was an anarchist. She thought of all work for money as prostitution (!!!!! Did you think my position on commercial porn was a little extreme?) and didn't think she should seek to be paid for work in her areas of avocation. She had many interests and talents, and was extremely hard working, but worked jobs that were low-paid and temporary. I had her in mind when I wrote this. I think of it as a virtue to be able to do something for a living that is something I enjoy and believe in --the latter more than the former, most of the time! I wondered how many people think like me and how many like my friend.
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Date: 2007-01-02 01:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-02 01:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-01-02 03:17 pm (UTC)here via metafandom. you don't know me from adam's housecat, but thank you so much for this. i simply devoured what you were saying as if it were chocolate.
lots of great ideas here, delivered with verve, humor and care. go you.
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Date: 2007-01-02 03:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-02 03:36 pm (UTC)I love your questions - they've really made me think about where I stand on fandom. I see the HP fandom as a great deal of fun. I spend a lot of my free time here, and I enjoy the people I've met and the fic/art we share. I do have friends in fandom, and acquaintances and a general respect for most of those who exist in the fandom, particularly within my OTP (
I think that when a person signs up for a fest they are making a commitment to follow through on that. Granted, it may be easier to do within a pairing-specific community because you're likely to already know and be friends with most of those in the community. There is a certain amount of respect that you should offer a fellow fest participant, even if you don't know them very well (or at all). Such are my general ideas.
For me specifically, I treat fandom friends and fellow fest participants the same way I would treat my real-life friends. I wouldn't offer to take a friend to a movie for her birthday and then show up with tickets to something she's going to hate. Or to transer it to the written medium, when I give a book as a birthday gift, I try to choose one that I know they'll like. I view fests in the same way and I will do my darndest to make sure my gift is something I truly believe the recipient will enjoy. I will do research, I will read their LJ, I'll notice what they comment on. While I don't expect others to be quite as obsessive as I am, I do expect them to follow a prompt.
If someone can come out and say "this is what I like," then I think I have a certain responsibility to respond in an appropriate manner. Ditto if they have a list of specific squicks. I think that doing something such as what happened at
I know it's a bit ridiculous to feel "safe" on the net, because there are plenty of nasty people out there. I'm rather sheltered at
/end of part 1 - sorry, am a bit long-winded this morning...
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Date: 2007-01-02 03:36 pm (UTC)I like this comment - I do think that some people seem to read "fun" as "freedom to do whatever you want." This is just not... logical to me. (There's probably a better word than logical, but I'm not coming up with one.) Fun alone is one thing - I think there is more freedom there. These are what I'd call my random plot bunnies - I have a bunny, I write... if you like it, great. If not, oh well. But if you involve other people in your fun, there is automatically some sort of responsibility involved. When I write for other people, I do my best to take into account kinks/squicks and pairing preferences. The fic is not for myself anymore, and I find it selfish to turn it into something about myself instead of about the recipient.
Wow, there's nothing like kicking off the new year with wank, eh? :D Thanks for your thought-provoking comments and questions!
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From:LJ ate my long and thoughtful response...
Date: 2007-01-03 09:11 pm (UTC)More briefly. I agree with your thesis in general, but in this particular case I don't think it applies. The intent to deride someone's preferences did not appear to be based on a negative/fearful reaction to a certain form of sexuality, but on simple malice (or, as was alleged, the intent to be funny at the expense of the recipient's stated preference). It could as easily have occurred in another venue: say a bake exchange, where the recipient says "I love cookies, but I'm allergic to peanuts" and the giver says "Fool. Peanuts are good for you. Ha ha!" and bakes a batch of peanut butter cookies.
Re: LJ ate my long and thoughtful response...
Date: 2007-01-03 10:25 pm (UTC)I join you in doubting that the gift writers had any feeling one way or another about the recipient's squicks, kinks or pairings. Your food allergy analogy is very apt.
Re: LJ ate my long and thoughtful response...
From:no subject
Date: 2007-01-04 01:20 am (UTC)Best summary ever.
This post pretty much lists everything I like about (lurking in) fandom: all these people writing really interesting things for no other reason than for their own pleasure and the praise of the community! Communism can really work and we can save the whales besides!
Of course it turns out to be more complicated than that.
here from
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 08:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-14 12:33 am (UTC)So I guess I'm one of the people who feel it is just as important as their "real" jobs. It's a lot more fun and interesting that my real job, that's for sure. :-)