IDLE: Cosmetic improvements for main window

[roseman]

BPO	24750
Nosy	@rhettinger, @terryjreedy, @kbkaiser, @ncoghlan, @ned-deily, @serwy, @roseman, @serhiy-storchaka
Dependencies	bpo-24759: Idle: require tk 8.5 and ttk widgets, and drop unneeded code.
Files	idle_main.png: Main IDLE window (Linux, Mac, Win) + inactive status mainwin.patch mainwin2.patch @scroll27.diff @scroll.diff @scroll34.diff mainwin3.patch ttk-scrollbar.diff

^{Note: these values reflect the state of the issue at the time it was migrated and might not reflect the current state.}

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GitHub fields:

assignee = 'https://github.com/terryjreedy'
closed_at = <Date 2016-06-10.22:42:34.083>
created_at = <Date 2015-07-29.20:55:02.232>
labels = ['expert-IDLE', 'type-feature']
title = 'IDLE: Cosmetic improvements for main window'
updated_at = <Date 2016-06-10.22:42:34.082>
user = 'https://github.com/roseman'

bugs.python.org fields:

activity = <Date 2016-06-10.22:42:34.082>
actor = 'terry.reedy'
assignee = 'terry.reedy'
closed = True
closed_date = <Date 2016-06-10.22:42:34.083>
closer = 'terry.reedy'
components = ['IDLE']
creation = <Date 2015-07-29.20:55:02.232>
creator = 'markroseman'
dependencies = ['24759']
files = ['40060', '40070', '40071', '40074', '40075', '40100', '40147', '43327']
hgrepos = []
issue_num = 24750
keywords = ['patch']
message_count = 35.0
messages = ['247627', '247644', '247683', '247704', '247705', '247706', '247709', '247714', '247724', '247725', '247726', '247739', '247742', '247759', '247761', '247763', '247818', '247823', '247827', '247828', '247832', '247838', '247844', '247859', '247895', '247900', '247913', '248004', '248227', '248567', '248793', '254729', '254730', '268075', '268165']
nosy_count = 9.0
nosy_names = ['rhettinger', 'terry.reedy', 'kbk', 'ncoghlan', 'ned.deily', 'roger.serwy', 'markroseman', 'python-dev', 'serhiy.storchaka']
pr_nums = []
priority = 'normal'
resolution = 'fixed'
stage = 'resolved'
status = 'closed'
superseder = None
type = 'enhancement'
url = 'https://bugs.python.org/issue24750'
versions = ['Python 3.6']

[roseman]

The screen shot shows the current version of the main IDLE window, with the little pics at the bottom indicating what it looks like when the window loses focus. A few entirely cosmetic changes I'd like to make here:

1. Swap scrollbar for ttk scrollbar; this visually will affect the Linux version. Note that even the ttk scrollbar is somewhat out-of-date with current desktops, but it's a step in the right direction!

2. You'll notice the slight border around the text widget when active; barely visible on Windows, a bit more so on Linux, and very much there on Mac (this is the "highlightthickness" attribute). Current conventions on all three platforms do away with this, so it should be removed for IDLE.

3. Regarding the items in the status bar, I'm going to suggest removing the sunken reliefs around the two items. Again, this was all the range long ago, but most apps on all platforms now have more minimal decorations in those contexts. If there were more (different) things on the status bar, I might suggest a light vertical separator between sections, but here there's no need for decoration at all.

4. Color and border on status bar. It's most apparent on the Mac inactive window pic, where the status bar blends in to the editor. I plan on tweaking the status bar so it's always a light grey color, and has a small darker separator above it. I may see about tweaking the font, as status bars tend to use a slightly smaller font nowadays.

5. Spacing for icon size grip on Mac should be removed for recent versions of OS X. This hasn't been necessary since before OS X Lion (released 2011). I can have the code include it when running on earlier versions of OS X.

These are all tiny changes, but combined with a decent font make a big difference visually when IDLE first starts up.

[terryjreedy]

Ned, Mark will be opening several appearance issues (see ttk thread on Idle list). Do you want to be routinely added as nosy to comment?

Mark: The description and labeling of the screenshot is a bit off. For Windows, the full window is inactive ([ x ] is not red). The Linux and Windows inset labels are reversed (and the Windows one inactive).

1. I added the ttk import and prefix to EditorWindow and hit F5 to test. The result matches what appears to be the native Win7 scrollbar. I am ready change all the scrollbars. Lets make this a separate first patch.

2. The current Tk/Toplevel frame appears to be the native frame, at least on Win7. So I do not see anything to be done away with to match the platform. The semi-transparent frame gets grayer (less transparent) when active. There is additional darkening along the bottom and up 3/4 the sides. I do not care about Win8 as, judging from Stackoverflow, it seems to be less common among Idle users. I expect Win 10 will eventually be a different matter. I will eventually upgrade after I get the notice.

3. I agree with deleting the sinks: useless and ugly. I do not believe anything else has a status bar.

There is much wasted space. Notepad++ has file type, length (chars), lines, lineno, colno, selection length, "Dos/Windows"??, "ANSI"??, and Ins(ert versus Overwrite on insert - not available with Idle). I am not sure what would be useful, but adding stuff would be a separate issue.

4. Windows bar looks fine to me. Light gray, same active or not. For me, the font, the same as on the menu, is already small. No smaller. In fact, I have wondered whether it would be possible for users to adjust the size of the 'other' fonts also.

5. Ned's territory.

[roseman]

Sounds good. To clarify, (2) refers to not the overall window, but just around the text widget. Both regarding this and the comments regarding status bar (4), things look really good now on Windows. The changes I've made are barely perceptible there, but improve things a bit more on Linux, and way more on Mac.

[roseman]

The attached mainwin.patch implements these few small changes (except for removing the Mac grow box space); checked active/inactive on Mac, Windows, Linux.

[terryjreedy]

I added a dependency to gracefully exit when no ttk.

Mark: If you have not yet, please sign PSF Contributor Agreement before submitting further patches.
https://www.python.org/psf/contrib/
https://www.python.org/psf/contrib/contrib-form/

I now see what you mean -- the active text border for linux and mac. I cannot see anything on Windows with side-by-side text windows, even with a magnifier, so if there is a change, it is too subtle for my eyes.

I am working on a scrollbar patch for the other files.

[roseman]

Great. Sent in the contributor agreement Monday so I assume it should percolate through soon.

[terryjreedy]

Looks fine on Windows. Now to be picky: Is it possible to move 'Col:' to the left, leaving space to the right, so that 'Col:' does not move when going from 9 to 10? Ditto for 'Ln:'?

[roseman]

The mainwin2.patch keeps the width of the fields constant. Thanks!

[terryjreedy]

I patched the other scrollbars for 3.4 and verified the expected appearance change. For 2.7, with 8.5.15, I so not see any difference. Is this what I should expect on Windows? Did ttk.Scrollbar only use the Win7 scrollbar in 8.6?

[terryjreedy]

I assume that change should be apparent on 2.7 with other system, but I'd like to make sure that I have not missed anything. I am otherwise ready to commit these.

[terryjreedy]

Hmm, the problem with maxsize = constant is occasionally losing a trailing digit or two.  For instance, if one enters 8**2222, one might be interested in the number of digits and put cursor at end of wrapped line.  But trailing 7 of 2007 is missing.  Is there any (sensible) way to have min with no max, like printf and python formatting?
>>> '%3d' % 1111
'1111'

[ned-deily]

Ned, Mark will be opening several appearance issues (see ttk thread on Idle
list). Do you want to be routinely added as nosy to comment?

No, that's not necessary or desirable. At the moment, I don't think I have much bandwidth or expertise to contribute to appearance discussions. I'll chime in if asked or if anything strikes me.

As a general principle, do keep in mind that for each current actively maintained Python release (e.g. 2.7, 3.4, and 3.5), on python.org we supply two Python installer variants for OS X: (1) for OS X 10.6 and higher that links with Tcl/Tk 8.5 and (2) for OS X 10.5 (and higher, although intended primarily for 10.5) that links with Tcl/Tk 8.4. So any changes for IDLE for 2.7, 3.4, and 3.5 should work across all of those combinations of OS X releases and Tk versions. (For Python 3.6, I'd like to move to shipping with just Tk 8.6, if possible.) Also, there are third-party distributors of Python for OS X that currently link with Cocoa Tk 8.6 and with X11 Tk 8.6, for example, MacPorts.

https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/

[terryjreedy]

ttk is not available with 8.4 (except maybe with the tile extension, but I believe some changes were made before it was incorporated in 8.4 as ttk). As I mentioned on the ttk thread on idle-sig, it was agreed in a pydev discusion a couple of years ago or so that Idle could use ttk widgets and thereby require 8.5. 8.5 is about 8 years old. Tracker issues and pydev discussion about using ttk in Idle go back at least 5 years. Two examples of the latter are "IDLE contributors and committers" and "Removing IDLE from the standard library" from July 2010. G. Polo's patches using ttk were part of the discussion.

Mark Roseman has used tk for 22 years and ttk for at least 8 and written a nice website and book on how to use them (which I have read). He has offered to help upgrade Idle with ttk. I am excited about taking advantage of the offer. This will alleviate many of the complaints about Idle's appearance and allow use of the (tabbed) Notebook, and Treeview widgets new with ttk. Even on Windows, the ttk Scrollbar is a noticeable improvement.

I do not want to keep Idle development frozen for the benefit of the few users of the 8-year-old Mac OS 10.5 who might also want to use Idle. The alternatives I see are removing Idle from the 10.5 release; asking those who want Idle to upgrade to a new ActiveState distribution, if there is one that works on 10.5; or include with that release a frozen version of Idle as it was yesterday, before I applied the first patch importing ttk.

Nick, do you remember any of the pydev discussions, or have any comments?