You’re unlikely to change someone’s mind by arguing with them.
🔗 The cure for misinformation is not more information or smarter news consumers:
We got to do it in spaces where people who aren’t already like us exist.
I think that’s one trap people fall into. They want to say, “Okay, I’m going to engage politically, I’m going to contribute to this organization.” That can be effective in its own way. But it’s not doing the identity work unless it’s reaching out beyond, unless it’s having an impact. Reaching, involving, engaging, bringing people in who are not already on that side. Because we’re so sorted geographically, in institutions, in professions, we rarely encounter people like that anymore. But there are still places, and we have to find them. We have to not necessarily have a direct discussion — “You and I disagree about this, let’s hash it out.” That’s not going to work. It’s about connecting on other levels first to build trust and bring people in that way. Maybe over time, people are attracted to that.
This whole interview is really interesting and important (of course I would think that, because I am dispositionally inclined to do so 😂), but I think this part is the most important. I wish that they had not left it for the very end of the conversation when they were just about out of time.
For sure, I think that getting out and engaging with and working with people with whom we already mostly agree is a step in the right direction, and it is better than not doing anything. Even working with people in our own camp, it is likely we will find areas where we do not agree; working through those differences on friendly ground is good practice.
The overall point of Bagg’s work, though, is that we cannot bring people around to our point of view by reasoning and objective facts. This is exactly why I get so frustrated by claims that voters vote the way they do because they are misinformed, or are dumb, or lack critical thinking skills. People vote differently from you because they have a different understanding of the world, they trust a different set of experts, and they prioritize different things.
I get why people want to focus on framing arguments or debunking or whatever. It offers the promise that if we just say things in the right way, people will come around to our way of thinking. It also reinforces the idea that we are the ones who are right, and that that rightness is based on some sort of objective truth. It absolves us of the need to make and defend our judgements about the world—we’re just right, see?—because what we believe is true and what the other people believe is false.
But people tend to believe what they do because of how they were raised, their experiences in the world, and the groups with which they identify. We are not going to change that by dunking on them, or by coming up with just the right logical argument, or by getting the right set of facts in front of them. To change that stuff, we have to change their experiences of the world, and that is long, slow, difficult work, and it probably mostly done by forging personal connections in the real world.