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icepixieThe Long Night
aka The Prep Work.
Also, it's kind of...the episode where the seconds get to shine? Ivanova forces Sheridan not to protect her, Lennier totally starts the ball rolling on the battle plan, and Vir, of course, gets to kill Cartagia. Guess who's least pleased with these events.
It's interesting that Londo thinks the only thing he has left is his honor. What, exactly, does honor mean to Londo?
Sheridan's sending of Erickson and the rest of the people on that White Star to certain death still makes me go O.O . It's pretty much the only way to do it, but man...that had to hurt.
That Part of "Ulysses" in 3...2...1... Very fitting, though. And I like the callback to Sinclair.
Into the Fire
You know, I think Shelley summed up my feelings on this episode. Everything after is just so much blather:
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said:—Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Delenn can talk about making their own magic all she wants, but I've seen season five. The Shadows and Vorlons were way cooler.
(Also: "Now get the hell out of our galaxy!" BRB, HEADDESKING FOREVER. I mean, I know pretty much anything was gonna be anti-climactic, so I agree, why not ride that and not even have a battle at all, but WAS THAT REALLY NECESSARY? Also, even if it didn't turn into a bloodbath, did you really need every one but Ivanova on one ship? This strikes me as foolish.)
So. Theories on what, exactly, is beyond the Rim? 'Cause the way Lorien and the Shadows and Vorlons were talking about it, it seemed kinda like it might be a metaphor for heaven (live forever! meet old friends! I your quasi-creator god will be thereand forgive your sins!), except I don't think it's intended to be so. Obviously there's a certain similarity to the elves passing into the west in LOTR, but here the "space between galaxies" is, you know, KNOWN, and...our best guess is that there ain't nothing there besides a few rogue stars.
...Ahaha, what if Lorien is lying to them and actually sending them all to certain death? That would be kind of hilarious.
Please, please tell me that at the beginning, when Lorien says they need to have all of the First Ones, I am not the only person who responds with, "Gotta catch 'em all!"
*
Probably there could be more on both of those, but I'm currently being distracted by my AU, which I have somehow hit 8,000 words on now. I don't even know. It's been kind of like taking dictation lately. (I still have at least 2,000 words to go, probably more like 3,000. Aaaaaahhhh.)
Also, the last bit I wrote is so ridiculously, disgustingly cute that I feel like I should probably cut it on principle, but it's just sitting there, staring at me with big doe eyes, and I haven't the heart. I think both Ivanova and Delenn might also hurt me if I try to take away this particular bit of happy they get.
aka The Prep Work.
Also, it's kind of...the episode where the seconds get to shine? Ivanova forces Sheridan not to protect her, Lennier totally starts the ball rolling on the battle plan, and Vir, of course, gets to kill Cartagia. Guess who's least pleased with these events.
It's interesting that Londo thinks the only thing he has left is his honor. What, exactly, does honor mean to Londo?
Sheridan's sending of Erickson and the rest of the people on that White Star to certain death still makes me go O.O . It's pretty much the only way to do it, but man...that had to hurt.
That Part of "Ulysses" in 3...2...1... Very fitting, though. And I like the callback to Sinclair.
Into the Fire
You know, I think Shelley summed up my feelings on this episode. Everything after is just so much blather:
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said:—Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Delenn can talk about making their own magic all she wants, but I've seen season five. The Shadows and Vorlons were way cooler.
(Also: "Now get the hell out of our galaxy!" BRB, HEADDESKING FOREVER. I mean, I know pretty much anything was gonna be anti-climactic, so I agree, why not ride that and not even have a battle at all, but WAS THAT REALLY NECESSARY? Also, even if it didn't turn into a bloodbath, did you really need every one but Ivanova on one ship? This strikes me as foolish.)
So. Theories on what, exactly, is beyond the Rim? 'Cause the way Lorien and the Shadows and Vorlons were talking about it, it seemed kinda like it might be a metaphor for heaven (live forever! meet old friends! I your quasi-creator god will be there
...Ahaha, what if Lorien is lying to them and actually sending them all to certain death? That would be kind of hilarious.
Please, please tell me that at the beginning, when Lorien says they need to have all of the First Ones, I am not the only person who responds with, "Gotta catch 'em all!"
*
Probably there could be more on both of those, but I'm currently being distracted by my AU, which I have somehow hit 8,000 words on now. I don't even know. It's been kind of like taking dictation lately. (I still have at least 2,000 words to go, probably more like 3,000. Aaaaaahhhh.)
Also, the last bit I wrote is so ridiculously, disgustingly cute that I feel like I should probably cut it on principle, but it's just sitting there, staring at me with big doe eyes, and I haven't the heart. I think both Ivanova and Delenn might also hurt me if I try to take away this particular bit of happy they get.
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no subject
Date: 2010-09-10 01:53 pm (UTC)I LOL'd for several minutes at this. So true. SO true, and very well said. (I mean, they made a baby so there clearly was some *ahem* "magic making" - but. Yeah.)
Also: "Now get the hell out of our galaxy!" BRB, HEADDESKING FOREVER.
This made me think of something. I'm currently reading "Out of Darkness" - and this Centauri nutjob totally makes a very valid point. He says - you know, Sheridan is not so totally awesome as everyone thinks, because every time he's been in a war and WON, it's not neccessarily been because he was the better leader/soldier/whatever. The Minbari surrendered, the Shadows and the Vorlons left for the Rim, and President Clark was nice enough to commit suicide. The book doesn't mention it, but there's also the Season 5 confrontation with the Centauri, when it wasn't anything super awesome that HE did that made them surrender; it was the whole Keeper business going on with the Regent that Sheridan didn't even KNOW about.
So all of this really made me think - not that he's not a good character, but seriously, if someone actually backed Sheridan into a corner and refused to, you know, just GO AWAY, would he really be able to get out? Could he pull off an actual victory where he had to actually bring someone down without help from the enemy itself? It's an excellent point, one that's worth considering. (And has very little to do with your post. Sorry.)
no subject
Date: 2010-09-10 06:10 pm (UTC)Heh. Thank you. :)
(I mean, they made a baby so there clearly was some *ahem* "magic making" - but. Yeah.)
*snerk*
I haven't read that book, but that's really interesting! I wonder the same thing you do--although then again, technically he did win the battle in the Earth/Minbar war, by blowing up the Black Star. Still, he had nothing to do with the war being won, and of course the Shadow and Civil Wars did kind of...end themselves for him. So he definitely talks a good bluster, but good call on whether he in fact walks the walk...
no subject
Date: 2010-09-10 08:55 pm (UTC)The book doesn't make mention of the Telepath War at all, but given this little (very valid) point made by the (admittedly psychotic) Centauri, I would reeeeeally like to know what role Sheridan played in that, and how he managed it (as I assume he and the Alliance played some part). Did he orchestrate attacks, authorize use of firepower... or did the Telepaths just back down, too?
...K, I have to stop now, because I keep imagining Old Delenn coming into my office and giving me that LOOK and telling me John Sheridan was a good, kind and decent man and I should just STFU. :)
no subject
Date: 2010-09-11 05:04 am (UTC)I am absolutely convinced that 90% of Sheridan's success at everything he does after meeting Delenn pretty much comes down to this. She has decided that he will succeed, and by god, if the universe doesn't agree with her, she'll just make it agree with her. ;)
no subject
Date: 2010-09-11 05:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-11 05:10 am (UTC)"Now get the hell out of our galaxy!" BRB, HEADDESKING FOREVER.
Lamest mid-season climax EVAR. Seriously, Sheridan, is that the best you can do? Maybe you should have had Delenn deliver the smackdown for you, because... that pretty much just sucked. I didn't hate it as much my second viewing as I did my first, but... it's still disappointing.
Re: Beyond the Rim:
I... pretty just smack "the West" onto that and fail to think of it any further, honestly. Maybe it's actually like Valinor, where the enlightened and advanced species can live forever in peace but mortals who arrived would die quickly of an overdose of holiness or perfection or whatever, or maybe it's a kind of... limbo-type-thing? Or maybe it's yet another euphemism for death, like the Minbari going to the sea. That last certainly seems to be what Sheridan took it to be, although whether or not he was literally retrieved by Lorien or just hallucinated that he was being retrieved by Lorien does seem to be another issue altogether.
Frankly, I'm still disappointed that he was retrieved by Lorien and not by Kosh. Kosh and Sheridan had so much more interesting a relationship than Sheridan had with Lorien, and Kosh was way more awesome, anyway. Besides, he would have said something about how the avalanche roars silently in the night, or colorless green ideas sleep furiously, or something awesome like that. ♥
no subject
Date: 2010-09-11 05:10 pm (UTC)Yeah. Too bad about the compression of two years into one--it would've been so much better had the Shadow War lasted the rest of S4 and the Civil War the majority of S5.
Maybe you should have had Delenn deliver the smackdown for you
*sporfle* My thoughts EXACTLY. As you will see in not too long. *enigmatic smile*
that pretty much just sucked.
Yep. Although props to Boxleitner for just going with it. I'm assuming he at least tried to send the script back to JMS with a great big "SERIOUSLY?" scrawled on it before getting smacked down, anyway.
I... pretty just smack "the West" onto that and fail to think of it any further, honestly.
That's probably the best way to go about it.
That last certainly seems to be what Sheridan took it to be, although whether or not he was literally retrieved by Lorien or just hallucinated that he was being retrieved by Lorien does seem to be another issue altogether.
That whole thing has always bothered me. I mean, if he really does "go beyond the rim," then doesn't that mean he can't be reincarnated along with Delenn and everyone else? That's really quite sad.
Besides, he would have said something about how the avalanche roars silently in the night, or colorless green ideas sleep furiously, or something awesome like that. ♥
That would've been ten times more awesome, yes.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-12 12:06 am (UTC)God, I hope so...
then doesn't that mean he can't be reincarnated along with Delenn and everyone else?
Exactly my worry. We know that the Minbari canonically believe in reincarnation, and fully expect to see the people they care about in all their lives. Delenn would be so heartbroken if she couldn't see Sheridan again until the end of the universe when the rebirth cycle stops!