4
$\begingroup$

Let me clarify: I have two potential models for a type of flat eye that I theorized to compensate for the way I draw my creatures (their eyes are always big and I don’t have the heart to make them smaller). If their eyes were actual spheres, there would not be enough room for a brain large enough to be intelligent (anime-girl paradox). I also wish for them to not have to turn their heads like an owl to be able to look at things due to flat eyes being unable to move in the sockets. (I was unable to add pictures of the model because I honestly don't know how)

enter image description here (Sorry if it's crap)

In model A, the “pupil” (the part that allows light to pass through into the receptors) takes up the entire size of the eye, but is behind a layer of almost iris-like muscle. However, instead of simply making the pupil bigger and smaller, it allows the pupil to move around the surface of the eye in the full range that an eyeball would. The cones and rods would be located in the area behind the pupil, along the walls. The entire outer/protective layer over the surface of the eye would act as the cornea.

The entire surface of the eye is not actually flat, it is convex. If it were truly flat, I would feel that the scene that the creature is looking at would just slightly change angles instead of looking at something, say, above them to the right.

enter image description here (Again, sorry if it's crap)

In model B, the pupil is more normally sized, and has a cornea directly covering the pupil as opposed to the entire eye. The cornea and pupil are suspended in light-blocking gel, and are connected to the optic nerve via a cone-shaped structure behind the pupil filled with cones and rods. Through some sort of process that I don’t care to explain right now (electrical impulses or something), the pupil and cornea travel through the gel, allowing it to lock on and focus on an object. When the pupil wants to constrict, the gel is allowed to slightly cover the pupil by a sort of selective permeability that activates at certain external stimuli, like intense light. Likewise, if the pupil wants to dilate, the gel will be forced to move farther away to allow more light to pass through. Like the previous model, the surface of the eye is convex, which allows them to actually look around without moving their head significantly.

I have done research on animals with non-spherical eyes, such as owls, and almost none of the results are particularly satisfactory to me. If there are some discrepancies that my tiny brain missed, like how one of the models wouldn’t work or etc, please point them out so I can attempt to fix it. Maybe offer alternatives, but that might require brainstorming and that’s against the rules .-_.- I just want to see which model would work better than the other one.

New contributor
Violet_Eyes is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering. Check out our Code of Conduct.
$\endgroup$
14
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Hi. I was with you until paragraph 2, then I got very, very confused. Could you produce us a diagram to make it clearer. $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking. $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
  • $\begingroup$ @Escapeddentalpatient. I did try to add diagrams, but it wouldn't let me/I don't know how. $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @bindiff I mean... absolutely, you could say that. (this is becoming an inside joke among my co-designers) $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ On the mentioned paradox: Arthur C. Clarke estimated, based on what was known of biology and physics at the time, that a human-level intelligence could fit within the volume of a matchbox. So, with sufficiently advanced technology/biology, it may not be that big of a problem. $\endgroup$ Commented 3 hours ago

3 Answers 3

4
$\begingroup$

Probably Not

First off I don't really understand your B Model so this is just for your A model.

If I understand your point in your creature the pupils move around the eye, instead of the eye moving as it does in humans, however moving the iris around the convex shape would changing the distance the light travels to sensors, which would lead to some distorted vision as the pupil moves around the eye.

But it could be possible the brain would be able to process that.

What I think is much harder is the how the pupil moves around the eye. Now you can basically change it so the muscles we have connected to eyeball you have connected to your pupil and the muscles basically go over the sclera, but it would be moving over an uneven shape, and going over the eye with some friction.

I'm not a biologist but I don't know of any animals with muscles that move like that to allow some movement along two axis without a joint or spherical shape.

I don't think your iris idea either would be able to move the pupil around, the iris is a sphincter so it gets bigger or smaller, it doesn't change the center point of the hole.

I can't say your idea is impossible, but for me (not a biologist), it doesn't seem plausible.

$\endgroup$
2
  • $\begingroup$ I think it might be possible. For example when you smile or lift your leg as you're walking, you're invoking multiple separate muscles at once, and not even necessarily in the same place. If a muscle can move the iris, a simultaneous and equal muscle can move the sensors by the same amount. It wouldn't work as well as a typical eye would, since the eye is what moves using the muscles, whereas in my scenario, they wouldn't be one moving part, there would be at least two separate parts. In short, possible, not biologically probable. $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
  • $\begingroup$ I added images, maybe that will help with your understanding (The drawings aren't that good but I tried) $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
4
$\begingroup$

These designs are, I'm afraid, not going to work without some further contrivances.

The reason our field of view shifts when we move our eyes is not just that the pupil shifts. It's that the entire optical axis of the eye (cornea, lens, pupil, and retina) shifts, so that the optical axis is now pointed towards the center of the field of view. This means that light coming from the new center of the field of view is still focused onto the retina; which means that the rods & cones at a particular point on the retina still receive light from a particular point on a distant object; and so our brains are able to tell which way light is coming from and therefore where objects are in space.

In Design A, in which the pupil moves without shifting the cornea, lens, or retina, the light rays from distant objects would still be focused on the original points on the retina, and so the center of their field of view would not shift. The only effect that shifting the pupil would have (if not shifting the rest of the optical axis) is to cause the image received by the retina to dim; see this YouTube video for a demonstration of this, and this YouTube video for an explanation of why — though you'll probably need to understand some optics concepts before diving into that second video.

Design B is more promising, though still faces some problems. In particular, the distance from the center of the cornea to the retina will vary depending on the cornea's position. But the distance from the cornea to the image formed is determined by the curvature of the cornea; and if the image is formed "in front of" or "behind" the retina instead of on it, the creature's vision will be blurred. So there is a risk that the creature will only be able to see clearly when looking in one direction.

This could be mitigated in a few ways. One is that the back surface of the eye could have a particular shape such that the distances work out appropriately, at least for the center of the field of view. Another is that there's a lens in the eye, similar to those in vertebrate eyes whose curvature changes, and shifts the focal length of the combined system. (You'd need something like this in either design, BTW, to be able to focus on close-up objects as well as far-away objects.) How this lens is able to change its curvature without muscular attachments is for you to figure out.

Finally, if you want your creature to have color vision and visual acuity when looking off to one side, they will have to have cones distributed over their entire retina to enable photopic vision in all directions. (Human eyes, in contrast, only have cones near the center of the field of vision.) This may not be a problem unless it requires fewer rods in those parts of the retina, which would then limit your creature's dark-vision.

$\endgroup$
2
  • $\begingroup$ Hello, in model B, I stated that the pupil and cornea move together, and by extension, the lens. And the retina is a layer of light-sensitive tissue lining the back of the eye, which doesn't move. $\endgroup$ Commented 22 hours ago
  • $\begingroup$ @Violet_Eyes: My apologies; I missed that in your initial description. I've added a couple paragraphs on problems with Model B, though I do think it's more promising. $\endgroup$ Commented 8 hours ago
2
$\begingroup$

To directly answer the question: no, I don't think either model is plausible. However.... We'll get to however momentarily.

We need to start with how optics work

The reason the pupil doesn't move is that light passing through the pupil (and the lens) is cast onto the entire back surface of the eye. All rods and cones are exposed. Pupil dilation limits the intensity of light, but doesn't change where it falls on the back of the eye. This is efficient! All the rods and cones are in use and the brain is processing information from all of them.

A moving pupil means either a very complex set of optics to keep the image in focus and cast upon the only set of rods and cones, or a forest of rods and cones only some of which are exposed to light at any given time. That means a complex brain that knows when to interpret information from what cones, or one that knows what to do with all the black that contains a roving circle of light. This is a problem for evolution, which tends to favor simplicity over complexity. Human eyesight, as complex as it is, is mechanically (i.e., optically) elegant.

Let's add the fact that the human eye is spherical. One reason why is that optically the image cast by the lens is less distorted against the curved background than it would be on a flat or, per your images, a surface that changes angles several times.

Finally, an eye is an eye

One more point before I talk about a potential alternative (the "however..."): one can claim that humans have moving pupils because when the eye moves, the pupil moves with it. Moving a pupil on a flat surface buys you nothing. The surface must have some curvature. Moving a pupil along a curved surface (within an "eye") is just an eye and we're just erasing names and penciling them in elsewhere. In short, you haven't invented an eye with a moving pupil, you've simply created an eye.

What can we do about this?

I love your reference to turning the head like an owl. Owls turn their heads to focus their hearing. In fact, that beautiful plumage around their eyes is intentionally shaped by evolution to funnel sound to the ears.

What we need is a way to move a "normal sized eye" around in a way that lets you preserve the large-eye look while maintaining a purpose.

Let's start with the skin around a chameleon's eye:

chameleon's eye

For a chameleon, all that extra flesh serves the purpose of allowing the smaller and spherical eye to be positioned for vision across nearly 360°. But we're not going to use it to reposition the eyeball, we're going to use that kind of flesh to do something useful with light.

Humans, thanks to the ability to rotate the eyeball, can see about 200° horizontally. But for some reason (I'm voting for a thicker skull to take a better beating when defending against predators, but I'm guessing outrageously about your creature, or maybe the eyeballs are very, very small) the eyeballs in your creature(s) want to move very, very little. This seriously limits the value of peripheral vision.

The solution? A skull structure that places the eyes at the center of a wide field with limited muscular control. Surrounding the eyes is a stretch of skin (scales, feathers...) flat or slightly concave. Color them light if you want to improve peripheral vision. Color them dark if you want to reduce glare and increase efficiency. Either way, the creature must turn its head like an owl to get clear views around itself.

And if you really want to have fun, use nictitating lids for lubrication and that big field of skin for protection. Muscles don't rotate the eyeballs. Instead, they draw the eye deeper into that thick skull, all the while pulling that skin very nearly over the top of the eye. The result is a highly protected eyeball with just enough view through that pulled-in skin to see directly in front of the creature. And since we're dealing with a creature that needs to turn to see around itself anyway, that'd be a great way to both protect the eyes and remain very focused on whatever it is that's attacking you.

If you insist on creating actual eyes...

I assume what you want is the wide-eye white look. That's hard to achieve. Eyelids exist to protect the eyes from wind or bright light. Tears exist to lubricate and protect. If you don't use a large field of "skin" as I've suggested, then you need lids and tears for your very large eyes. Lids are problematic because muscles must pull them into large folds. Tears are less of a problem, other than your creatures would be tearing to excess all the time due to the much higher evaporation. But let's ignore those things.

What you could have is a eye that's curved to a wide arc (such as a very large eye would have) on one side (the pupil side) and curved to a much smaller (or, should I say, "flatter") arc for the back. It's the smooth shape the optics needs (remember, discontinuities are bad for optics). In other words, it's mostly flat in front and spherical in back. Call it half an eyeball.

The eye isn't held in place by muscles, like human eyes are, but by something more like ligament material. The is necessary because the larger eyes taking less space require something more capable of holding the eye in p;ace. The problem with ligament material is, compared to muscles, it's inflexible and slow. This requires the head to swivel to see more than literally what's in front of you

But it does move just a bit... and there's no "moving pupil," which is very hard to rationalize.

Final word about a word: why "is this plausible?" is a bad question here

Asking if something is plausible can mean two things, and we don't know which one it is. You could be asking if your idea can factually exist in the Real World.

Second, the question is almost always an invitation to review an idea. For that, you must use the tag because we had to craft a policy that would allow for review questions, which are otherwise contrary to Stack Exchange's rules. Be sure to carefully read the wiki because that tag also has rules that must be followed.

Why do I bring this up? Because whether or not something is "plausible" within the world of science as we understand it today (and that's very important to remember) isn't worldbuilding. There isn't a gang of rabid scientists waiting to jump you in a dark alley because you've proposed something we haven't seen before and they're uncomfortable coloring outside the proverbial box. And if you're looking for a review of your idea, the tag and its rules are the correct way to do it.

I think you have a good idea and only need to work out some details.

$\endgroup$
2
  • $\begingroup$ You make some very good points, but I also stated that the surface of the eye (the side with the pupil) is curved. I do see how the way I drew the models you could get confused though. If I don't get a particularly satisfactory answer, I might just use parts of your solution, but just say the pupils move with no reason whatsoever. I don't need a solution for everything, but it is nice to have a bit of an explanation. $\endgroup$ Commented 22 hours ago
  • $\begingroup$ you can get a much flatter eye if you go the cephalapod route and move one of a pair of lenses instead of changing lens shape to focus. you still need a uniform curve for focus to work, so cone shaped will not work. $\endgroup$ Commented 5 hours ago

You must log in to answer this question.

Start asking to get answers

Find the answer to your question by asking.

Ask question

Explore related questions

See similar questions with these tags.