The Marines want a new Armored Reconnaissance Vehicle (ARV) to replace the venerable Light Armored Reconnaissance Vehicle (LAV-25). They want 533 units from a 5-year production run.[1] Okay … that’s fine. Seems simple enough. A vehicle to transport a few scouts, see what’s around, and report back. Cheap … simple … basic. Quick and easy to procure. What could go wrong?
Of course, the Marines – like the Navy and the military, in general - can’t just leave well enough alone, can they? They can’t just do basic. No, they want to turn a simple recon vehicle into a land version of a battleship; a do-everything vehicle capable of fighting a war single-handed. Take a look at the variants they want from what ought to be a simple recon vehicle:
ARV Variants [1]:
Command, Control, Communications, and Computers-Unmanned Aerial System (C4-UAS)
Organic Precision Fire-Mounted (OPF-M)
Counter Unmanned Aerial System (CUAS)
30 mm Autocannon and Anti-tank Guided Missile (ATGM)
Logistics (LOG)
Recovery (R)
Well, there goes simple, heading for the bus stop out of town!
Now, take a look at some of the features they want:
Features [1]:
Munitions upgrades including loitering munitions
Electronic warfare
Air defense
Cannon with programmable air burst munitions
Javelin missiles
Spike II missiles
Aerial drone threat sensors
And cheap just hopped the train out of town!
So, instead of a simple, basic, cheap, small recon vehicle, the Marines are looking to turn the vehicle into a land battleship with strike, anti-air, electronic warfare, anti-tank, drone control, etc. along with six different variants. That should only take about twenty years to field and cost several times what a main battle tank costs.
Hmmm …
What alternative is there?
You know … it occurs to me that we had a small, simple, cheap, basic recon vehicle in WWII. It was the M8 Greyhound and it performed quite well. Let’s compare specs for the M8 Greyhound and the Marine’s ARV. Of course, we have no specs on the ARV but it won’t likely be any smaller or lighter than the existing LAV-25 and will probably be larger so let’s look at the LAV-25 and the M8 Greyhound.
|
|
LAV-25 |
M8 Greyhound |
|
Length, ft |
21’ 0” |
16’ 5” |
|
Width, ft |
8’ 2” |
8’ 4” |
|
Height, ft |
8’ 10” |
7’ 4” |
|
Suspension |
8x8 wheeled |
6x6 wheeled |
|
Weight, tons |
14 |
8.5 |
|
Power, hp/ton |
19.5 |
13 |
|
Range, miles |
410 |
350 |
|
Max Speed, mph |
62 |
55 |
|
Armament |
25 mm chain gun 2x 7.62 mm machine gun |
37 mm 1x 0.50 cal machine gun |
|
Transport |
3 crew + 4-6 scouts |
4 crew |
|
Armor |
4.7 – 9.7 mm, small arms |
9.5 – 25.4 mm |
 |
| M8 Greyhound |
The obvious question is, which of those specs actually matter in a combat recon role? Well, the specs that matter most are:
- Range – more is better
- Size – less is better
- Armor – more is better
- Weapons – more is better
Considering those specs that matter most, we see that the M8 Greyhound has 15% less range (that’s bad), 39% less weight (that’s good), 17% lower silhouette (that’s good), 22% shorter length (that’s good), 102%-162% more armor (that’s good), and heavier weapons (that’s good). Thus, the M8 Greyhound is smaller, lighter, better armored, better armed, and has only slightly less range. That’s a pretty strong endorsement for the simple M8 Greyhound.
Here’s a scaled silhouette comparison of the M8 Greyhound and LAV-25.
 |
| M8 vs. LAV-25 Silhouette Comparison |
If you’re trying to do clandestine recon, you want as small a vehicle as possible, right? Well, that’s the M8 Greyhound, without a doubt!
Another factor that seems important is the crew size. The LAV-25 (and recon Strykers) carries around 5 scouts per vehicle plus the vehicle crew. That’s around 8 people per recon vehicle. Does that seem necessary? The M8 Greyhound used a total of 4 people. That seems a lot more reasonable for a recon mission. Fewer people means a smaller vehicle (that’s good) and less risk to less people (that’s good). Seriously, what do 8 people productively do on a simple recon mission?
Summary
Well, there you have it. We have the example of the M8 Greyhound recon vehicle, a vehicle designed for a specific task and with nothing extra. It is a stellar example of a small, cheap, simple, basic, well armed, well armored recon vehicle and it is eminently suited to its function. On the other hand, we have the Marine’s desired ARV which is bloated, overloaded with tasks, risks too many crew, and is ill-suited to its function.
The Marines, like the rest of the military, are instantly leaping from a simple task – recon – to a multi-multi-multi-function do-everything behemoth of a gold-plated beast that will be decades in development and prohibitively expensive.
Conceptually, we need to take the M8 Greyhound and update its technology and call it a day. It will accomplish the task with half the risk to people and we’ll be able to buy it in quantity and without waiting decades to complete development.
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[1]Task and Purpose website, “This Is The Marine Corps’ Wish List For Its Next High-Tech Recon Vehicle”, Max Hauptman, 17-Dec-2021,
